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Anonymous 07/11/2020 (Sat) 16:46:44 No. 31
A thread on everything bread. From cinnamon buns to sourdough loaves. Post recipes, share progress, or ask for advice. I've been on the sourdough journey for nearly two years now, with the first year being quite the struggle. I eventually settled on an overnight first rise on the counter (except in the exceptional heat of the summer), shaping, and then letting it rise until it was just right. I recently made some burger buns and pizza dough, but I've made quite a few recipes by this point. For anyone interested in starting the sourdough journey, I recommend Weekend Bakery (e.g. https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/no-knead-soft-sourdough-rolls/) and Butter for All (e.g. https://www.butterforall.com/traditional-cooking-traditional-living/how-to-bake-the-perfect-sourdough-boule-in-your-dutch-oven/). Your starter will need time to gain strength, so don't expect crazy results upfront, but if you persist with sourdough pancakes, you will end up with great bread.
anybody have any good recipes for gluten free bread that dosent taste like shit? my mom is allergic to flower and has respiratory problems when i bake in the house.
>>32 I've experimented with many gluten-free breads (using buckwheat, sorghum, and rice flours), but man, it always comes out tasting... weird and undesirable. Southern cornbread is about the only gluten-free "bread" I can recommend that doesn't ward me off as a gluten eater. You could also try arepas, which don't really have the texture of bread, but can be used like hamburger buns in their own way. Keep in mind that there are many different kinds of arepas that vary by country and region, but you can't really go wrong with either fried or pan-seared ones. Regardless of the method you choose, they really are very easy to make. Please consider the following: https://www.allrecipes.com/recipe/238510/homemade-arepas/
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>>32 Try pure teff flour. Most people who have gluten problems don't actually have problems with gluten but rather with one of it's components, alpha-gliadin. Teff has a different gliadin so it might not cause a problem. If that doesn't work you could try something like piki bread which is basically corn crepes. You could also try a pseudocereal like amaranth or celosia. I'f not had much experience with amaranth bread but I did attempt it once so I know it's possible.
>>45 Here I thought teff flour could be used for anyone who had Celiac, unless they have such a severe intolerance, they can't even eat rice. Otherwise, for the amaranth bread, did you use only that flour? I've always tried mixing flours with starches to try and get a lighter bread in the end.
>>66 >for the amaranth bread, did you use only that flour? I did. It was fairly heavy, heavier than something like pumpernickel, on account of amaranth being so full of protein. It's wasn't actually bad at all but I should have added more salt. >Here I thought teff flour could be used for anyone who had Celiac Teff's gluten is different enough from wheat/barley/rye gluten that the vast majority of Celiac patients aren't affected by it. Assuming there is no cross contamination during grinding of course. Many Celiac sufferers can tolerate oats too but it varies from person to person.
>>67 >It was fairly heavy, heavier than something like pumpernickel Sounds about what I imagined. I'll have to give the flour a go if you say it tastes good.
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Anyone had experience with Clostridium bacteria? It's when your starter smells like vomit... My second starter turned out this way for some reason, and apparently it's because the flour + water mix was done in a jar I tried to disinfect with boiling water, which Clostridium spores can apparently survive. The internet said it was okay and that you just have to add a bit of vinegar and wait it out, but honestly after a week I think it was unsaveable, my kitchen smelled like some chemical weapon research lab. I spent a whole day reading up biotech literature, and figured I add a bit of dry yeast and vinegar right off the bat for my third starter to give it a head start and create a slightly acidic environment suitable for proper yeasts and Lactobacillus bacteria, and yeah, this one turned out ok, though not as strongly alcoholic-smelling as my first starter which was basically ideal, so I'm guessing the yeast in this one is kinda weak. I know that you're not supposed to actually use store-bought yeast in the mix, but honestly I'm not sure if it's worth risking the starter turning into vomit shit again just for these mythical "natural yeasts", or is it? I also used store-bought yeast in my first starter too, so idk. Anyway, this was my experience,
>>76 For a moment I thought you were talking about salt-rising bread.
>>77 Yes, it is, but don't want to eat that shit. I got it by accident.
>>76 >I'm not sure if it's worth risking the starter turning into vomit shit again just for these mythical "natural yeasts", or is it? I've actually seen recipes for starters which use store-bought yeast. Though from what I've read, this means that particular strain of yeast will persist in your starter. However, I've only made a starter from water, flour, and grapes, so I'm not sure how much the flavour is impacted overtime. It's something I should try actually... I imagine that the Clostridium bacteria has taken up residence in your house at this point. So maybe the best option is to try and create a better environment with your third starter and then try it "naturally" if you are so inclined.
Have you guys had any luck making your own sourdough? I've given up waiting for yeast to appear in stores and decided to manage my own. Any recommendations on what to feed it? The more guides I read the more options I feel I have to choose from, but nothing narrows it down.
>>87 never made it, i wanted to grab some starter from a local bakery but there all shut down right now.
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>>87 I made my starter from all-purpose white flour, water, and grapes. The grapes are optional and lead to a "fruitier" starter overall. I've seen people say you should always include whole wheat flour and only use bread flour, but I need a practical starter that lives on the cheapest flour I can easily buy in bulk. Plus, you may/will end up with sourdough discard at some point - unless you start your starter small and are ready to make pancakes whenever you have too much - and that means throwing it down the drain, or at least not consuming it for yourself. Remember that once you have a strong starter, you can always use it to make another one. I've kept a rye starter made from my main white starter. Simple recipe I'd do is: Morning Combine 1/2 cup of water and 1/2 of flour in a glass container. Stir it and cover with cheesecloth or paper towel so it can breathe, but bugs can't get in. Evening Add an additional 1/2 cup of water and 1/2 cup of flour to the jar. Every day, do the same thing. As of day 3, you'll need to discard one or two large spoonfuls at every feeding (aka twice a day). Keep this up for seven days. At this point, your starter will still be weak, but it's technically strong enough to make a loaf.
>>87 Don't overthink it, all you need is 50% water and 50% flour, and keep feeding it water + flour everyday until it gives off a pleasant sour/alcoholic smell and rises after you feed it. That's all you have to do. Don't worry about the correct ratios either. Because I had a case of Clostridium (((subverting))) my culture, I could recommend adding a few drops of vinegar/lemon juice and quarter teaspoon of sugar as preventive measure. The proper sourdough starter is supposed to be a symbiotic relationship between yeasts (which create an alcoholic environment from sugars) and Lactobacillus (the same bacteria you get in yoghurt, which create an acidic environment), these are your bros, the alcohol + lactic acid they produce serve as defense mechanisms against enemy bacteria competing for the same food sources, including bacteria that are harmful to you. (((Clostridium))) is not your bro, it will give you a botulism infection and wounds that leak flammable hydrogen gas. If your starter starts smelling like nasty dog vomit, just nuke it from orbit and start again with this recipe.
>>88 >>90 >>91 Thanks guys. I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes. I'll add a few drops of lemon juice to ward-off any infections. I don't have any grapes (or really much in the way of fresh fruit) so maybe I'll just give it some brown sugar for now and then look for raisins next time I hit the store. My meat supply is running low so I'll need to do that soon anyways. Thanks!
>>92 Cool.
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vaguly bread related, tried making a pie crust out of almond flour and made some banana cream pies. the crust is really crumbly and hard to slice without it falling apart, so i may just give up and spoon it off like a banana pudding. at least they tastes good
>>97 Any reason for almond flour? I usually see that in keto/low-carb recipes. Did you blind bake it first? You might have better luck doing a cobbler like that, since it doesn't really matter if that crumbles.
>>97 1. Use high gluten flour. Not sure about almond flour, but make sure whatever you use is high gluten. 2. Allow it to autolyse (rest) for an hour or two after you mix the dough to allow gluten networks to form (to get stretchy dough) 3. Add a bit of vinegar (1-2 teaspoons), this also helps with stretchiness. You won't really taste it afterwards, so don't worry too much about the taste.
>>97 >>100 Almond flour doesn't have gluten but you can use something else like meringue to bind it. Or you can just cook it in in a tart pan which is good for crumb crusts. How did you make the crust? Was it like an oil pastry? Did you effectively just make marzipan?
>>99 my mom has wheat and egg allergies and i wanted to bake a pie we could both enjoy the almond flour was processed in a wheat facility though so fuck. >>100 thanks for the pie tips, had no clue about the vinegar tip. >>101 crust is basically just almond flower with butter, salt, and a half cup of ice water. also after letting the pies refrigerate overnight i can actually slice them without making a mess, still really crumbly though.
>>104 im now going to bake a peach pie but with brown rice flower instead of almond flower, ill make sure to use the vinegar tip >>100 suggested. i hope the crust turns out.
I use a recipe that can make two loaves, and I bake in a dutch oven. Having a small fridge kind of sucks for "bulk" batches. I can go through two homemade loaves in a week (two people). How do you store your uncut loaves? I refrigerate the loaves once I cut into them, but not enough space for two. We do get flour beetles occasionally during warmer months, so I'd prefer to not leave my bread out in a basket. Separate note, anyone have a suggested method of scoring your loaves? I suck with the two-knives sort of scissor technique.
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>>112 I like to use pic related. Works every time, just make sure to hold it properly or you'll cut yourself. As an added bonus you can get a real good shave with these.
>>111 Tell us how it goes. >>112 As far as I know, sourdough can last a week at least. So I don't think you need to refrigerate it if you use cling wrap or some other air-tight method.of storage. I don't really have a problem with bugs, but I usually leave my extra bread in the oven itself. As for scoring, I also suck at it, but I found that making a single slice using a wet knife + letting the bread bake for 5 minutes first, got me the best results (I don't use a dutch oven).
>>97 Might be worth trying this recipe out. Stella Parks really has her game going with gluten-free things: https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2016/07/best-gluten-free-pie-crust-recipe.html
>>115 i still have to make the filling, but i rolled the crust out and GOOD LORD its so much more agreeable than last time. holy shit 2tbs of vinegar makes a world of a difference, its so much more malleable and the crust looks so much better so far than my last pie. >>122 Sure, ill try that out for my next pie, cause i guess i just really like baking pie's now. >>122
>>122 also looking at the flour types used, i actually used a gluten free pancake flour and it listed most all the ingredients used in that pie crust exactly, right down to the xanthan gum, which makes me really optimistic about this pie.
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welp, the pies done. the crust looks really crumbly so im worried that its not going to hold up, but i gotta wait for it to cool before i even attempt to slice it, ill update on how it slices/tastes once it cools.
>>125 it is a bit browner than i would have liked, but i think that has to do with both the type of flour i used and the fact that some of the foil got loose partway through baking. as long as its not burnt im happy.
>>125 Looks pretty cool. Glad my advice helped for you.
>>126 update: i can get a slice outta it, tastes fantastic for what it is, really wish i could have used regular pie dough though instead of this gluten free egg free bs, crust is a bit ashy and quick to fall apart. still good though, i think next i wanna make a dinner pie, like a chicken pot pie or a pork pie.
>>113 >>115 Thanks for the tips. I'll try the razor next after a short time cooking. Never thought to keep a loaf squirreled away in the oven. Worth a shot.
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One of my favorite kinds of bread is fougasse.. There's so many different ways to make it but this is the recipe that I've used several times. For starter 1 teaspoon sugar 1/2 cup warm water (105–115°F) 2 teaspoons active dry yeast (from a 1/4-oz package) 1/2 cup all-purpose flour For dough 2 tablespoons sugar 1 1/4 teaspoons table salt 1 teaspoon anise seeds, lightly crushed 2/3 cup water 2 teaspoons orange-flower water (preferably French) 1 teaspoon finely grated fresh orange zest 1/3 cup mild extra-virgin olive oil (preferably French) plus 1 tablespoon for brushing 3 1/4 cups unbleached all-purpose flour plus additional for kneading 1 1/2 teaspoons flaky or coarse sea salt
>>158 Make starter: Stir together sugar and warm water in bowl of mixer. Sprinkle yeast over mixture and let stand until foamy, about 5 minutes. (If yeast doesn't foam, discard and start over with new yeast.) Whisk flour into yeast mixture until combined well. Let starter rise, loosely covered with plastic wrap, 30 minutes. Make dough: Add sugar, salt, crushed anise seeds, water, orange-flower water, zest, 1/3 cup oil, and 11/4 cups flour to starter and beat at medium speed until smooth. Mix in remaining 2 cups flour, 1/2 cup at a time, at low speed until a soft dough forms. Turn dough out onto a lightly floured surface and knead, sprinkling surface lightly with flour if dough is very sticky, until smooth and elastic (dough will remain slightly sticky), 8 to 10 minutes. Form dough into a ball and transfer to a lightly oiled large bowl, turning dough to coat with oil. Cover bowl with plastic wrap and let dough rise in a draft-free place at warm room temperature until doubled in bulk, 1 to 1 1/2 hours. Punch down dough (do not knead), then halve. Pat out each half into an oval (about 12 inches long and 1/4 inch thick), then transfer to 2 lightly oiled large baking sheets. Using a very sharp knife or a pastry scraper, make a cut down center of each oval "leaf," cutting all the way through to baking sheet and leaving a 1-inch border on each end of cut. Make 3 shorter diagonal cuts on each side of original cut, leaving a 1-inch border on each end of cuts, to create the look of leaf veins (do not connect cuts). Gently pull apart cuts about 1 1/2 inches with your fingers. Let dough stand, uncovered, until slightly puffed, about 30 minutes. Put oven racks in upper and lower thirds of oven and preheat oven to 375°F. Brush loaves with remaining tablespoon oil and sprinkle with sea salt. Bake, switching position of baking sheets halfway through baking, until loaves are golden brown and sound hollow when tapped on bottom, 35 to 40 minutes total. Transfer loaves to a rack and cool to warm or room temperature.
>>158 >>159 >anise SOLD bitches don't know about the glory that is anise in baked goods
>>160 I like to make it as a Christmas bread. There are also savory versions but I've never tried any of those.
>>135 I think at some point you have to accept you can't eat gluten and think of it in its own realm. Not sure I'd be able to survive based on my experiences, though... But I'm glad it turned out good.
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I posted these on 9fans, but I can't even access the site today. I started with dark rye organic for my starter, then moved to 100% whole wheat. I usually go 100g left over, 100g whole wheat, and 120-135g water for each refresh, being that whole wheat eats up more water. I keep the starter in the frig to minimize waste. When I need it, I take it out and give it one refresh and it's ready. It would probably be OK to use straight-away, but I wanted to be sure. I've had it since last March. My standard sourdough boule recipe is: 125g starter 235g warm water 8g ksalt 25g rye flour 300g bread flour Last time I pushed the hydration rate to around 80%. The pics are from as-written. I also have a pizza dough recipe with a levain.
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Hybrid sourdough levain with some ADY. I'm starting to think high hydration is just for show-off purposes, because these lower rate breads held their shapes much better.
>>201 I want an extra meaty stew with that bread anon looks pretty dang good
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Pita bread. Here's the recipe if you want it: https://hostthetoast.com/homemade-pita-bread/ It was really dry for me so I ended up adding more water. I used a baking stone. They made excellent pita sandwitches with grilled sausage, peppers, mushrooms, and onions.
Has anyone used hemp flour as a substitute or an additive in their breads? Would it work just as well to make a sourdough starter or is flour a better staple? t.retarted
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Shalom.
>>282 swim isn't sure but my pet monkey says its pretty totes
Any French Toast tips?
Thoughts on using yudane when making bread?
>>298 Soak the bread in your favorite unset custard.
>>298 Use brioche, THICK slices. Make sure it's not fresh. Separate an egg yolk and mix it. Don't soak the bread, just dunk it so each side of covered. Fry with butter until both sides are done. Coat with whatever you like, I use maple syrup.
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Here's a good way to use up bread going stale. Use a crusty bread (pictured is sourdough boule). Spread with butter, and minced garlic (about 1 clove for the number of slices shown). Sprinkle with ksalt, fresh ground black pepper, oregano, basil, and peprika. Bake at 400F until desired doneness. When the garlic threatens to turn brown I usually pull it.
>>315 I knew that.
>>299 >Yudane is made by mixing bread flour and hot boiling water. Adding hot boiling water gelatinises the starch. The gelatinised starch not only allows the starch to take in more water, but also increases the sweetness of it. Therefore adding Yudane to a bread dough (yudane method), you can make soft, moist and sweeter bread which lasts longer. I do this with my challah. Haven't even bothered trying it without because of how happy I've been with the results. Supposedly it makes the dough easier to handle when I'm braiding it as well.
>>298 >>313 I'll elaborate on this one because most French toast eaters probably don't think of it as a custard dish. Do you have a favorite ice cream brand? Assuming it's like Haagen-Dazs, which uses frozen crème anglaise with egg yolks, buy a pint of their vanilla ice cream, melt some, and soak your bread in that for your French toast. Are you in the Midwest with access to frozen custards? Even better. Do you like crème brûlée? Make the custard base, but before you cook it, soak your bread in some of that and fry it. You can even brûlé the French toast by sprinkling one side with granulated sugar and broiling it (I use a blowtorch).
>>336 I do this, but often in the form of croutons. Absolutely glorious.
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Made myself some sourdough rye bread the other day. I used around 65% rye flour and 35% all-purpose. The rise wasn't stellar from not using bread flour (as compared to >>192), but the taste is great. I added in some blackstrap molasses, though not a lot because I had barely any left. My first iteration of this had way more molasses and I liked that one better.
>>442 >all purpose No, man. You gotta go with bread flour or strong flour. The gluten just isn't high enough otherwise. Rye is also a tricky flour to use, bread that uses it will always come out dense no matter what you do.
>>397 Stop namefagging
>>445 Yeah, bread flour is definitely the way to go. Although I'm curious - have you (or anyone) tried using vital wheat gluten if you didn't have bread flour? I'm told it helps (at least used in a small amount since it's pure gluten).
>>446 No.
>>447 It probably would work, but I imagine bread flour is cheaper. Any fine flour with a high protein content should work, actually.
Made some sourdough pita over the weekend, following the recipe from Weekend Bakery (https://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/favorite-flatbreads-sourdough-pita/). You leave the dough to sit for up to 24 hours, then shape into balls and finally roll out before placing on a baking stone or cast iron pan in a very hot (>260 deg C/500 deg F) oven. You only need to cook them for 3-4 minutes and they puff up. I never had much luck with other recipes (i.e. they never actually inflated), so I'm super happy with this one. Only thing is the pita breads are pretty small. Still, if you're looking to make an easy recipe with your sourdough, this one is fun. I'll also make pita without sourdough - it's a fun, quick, yeast bread that really requires no baking time.
>>555 I actually used a similar method and recipe to make puffy, crisp on the outside soft on the inside pizza crust for a deep dish pizza just this afternoon. Turned out great and made me glad I bought that $20 pizza stone.
>>556 Sounds cool! Do you use a regular pizza dough recipe? On another note, I bought a cheap-ass pizza stone once and it cracked upon my first use. I'm not sure if it was just shit, or if the heat was too much for it.
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I made a spelt loaf with oats and honey on the weekend. After going on a rye bread kick for a while, it was nice to change it up with a sweeter bread. Otherwise, my newest adventure was making sourdough corn tortillas. In this case, I used both white-flour sourdough starter and corn flour to make them, along with salt, some water, and coconut oil. I much preferred them over straight corn tortillas - somehow the corn flour alone doesn't do it for me. Since I'm not experienced in making tortillas, my edges were not smooth but rather cracked. My assumption is lack of water, but I'd have to mess around some more next time. Thinking of making croissants in the recent future, but I need to get my hands on high-fat butter.
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I made another spelt oat loaf, but I toned down on the honey I added this time because it causes the bread to brown super quickly. Been having a lot of difficulty finding bread flour in my local grocery stores unfortunately. Hopefully I'll be able to pick some up soon in order to get some better rising bread.
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>>592 I honestly thought that was Loss.
>>593 Maybe I should try that intentionally next time...
>>592 You can also mix a couple percent universal flour with seitan/wheat gluten to make ersatz bread flour.
>>602 That was my original plan, but then I also couldn't find any on my last grocery shopping trip. I'll try a different store that has a "health food" section. Maybe because it is used to make seitan, they'll have some there.
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Finally bought some bread flour and baked bread last weekend. I've never had such a nice rise on my loaf. I also shaped it and proofed it for six hours because it's cold in my house in general... Worth it, though.
>>716 Bread flour is an absolute most for most breads, anon. Once you start using it, bread made with ordinary flour is almost unpleasant by comparison.
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Was experimenting with some hybrid (part sourdough, part instant yeast) breads last week. I was recently making breads on a wide pan and putting some water in a bread loaf pan to produce steam, but after re-trying the same bread recipe in a covered Dutch oven, I've decided the Dutch oven is superior. Maybe my oven is shit, but even with that steam added, the bread doesn't have a chance to rise as much before forming a crust and the colour isn't as nice. Has anyone else noticed a difference with their breads depending on which pan you use for baking? Do you have a preference? >>755 For rising, it really can make a difference. But I live the cheap life and buy huge bags of all-purpose flour, which is a good dollar cheaper per kilo than I can find for bread flour on sale. Don't know if it's like that everywhere, but it's the sad reality here. Maybe one day I can grow my own wheat.
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Made some sourdough English muffins yesterday. I wasn't sure if they would be properly cooked in the middle since you're essentially "baking" them on the stovetop for eight minutes (I added an extra four minutes to really get the bottom and tops brown), but they turned out pretty nice. Might be nice to try out some sourdough crumpets one time... Recipe followed for English muffins: https://littlespoonfarm.com/sourdough-english-muffins-recipe/
What's the downside of using AP flour vs bread flour? Does bleaching make a difference?
>>820 I made some hot dog buns and pizza with regular all purpose flour, it never allowed them to brown, hotdog buns came out stiff. I haven't tried bread flower yet but I might soon.
>>820 When it comes to bread making, the recommendation is generally bread flour rather than all-purpose. The reason is that the protein content in bread flour is higher than in all-purpose, though of course, this can vary. Generally, you want a flour between 12-14% protein content. Higher protein leads to more stable gluten development, thus allowing for a better rise. Using bread flour also helps if you plan on using a certain percentage of lower-protein flour, like whole wheat, spelt, or rye. It compensates for the other flours. This is why I tend to do a mix of AP and bread flour. As for bleaching, I've only seen it matter when it comes to delicate pastries like angel food cake. Of course, there's always the proponent that unbleached is better because it isn't treated and thus "healthier", but at that point, I'd opt for whole wheat bread flour. Otherwise, I haven't heard much about it making a difference in bread.
>>828 Is it possible to artificially increase the protein content in bread flour?
>>832 I've heard of adding extra gluten which often includes additional protein. If you just need to hit macros I'm sure there's some high-protein recipes on some keto websites. Or you could try adding literal protein powder, but I don't know how well that would work with the structure of the bread.
>>832 Take Seitan/Wheat gluten and put it in. It's pure protein. You can also use it if you lack bread flour, by mixing a tiny bit into normal flour. You can even make doughs with nigh-entirely seitan, though it will turn out more chicken-breast consistency than anything else.
>>832 What >>837 said. Vital wheat gluten allows you to increase the protein content of your flour. However, I've always wondered if it works just as well as using bread flour. As for using powdered whey protein, I found this if it is of use to you: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3590/whey-how-use-it-and-why
Does yeast do anything specific for the bread, other than consuming sugar to produce CO2 pockets to give it rise? Eg, it won't directly affect the taste or texture, but it's essential to the final product. Most yeasted bread recipes seem to require olive oil as well - is that to avoid it sticking to the bowl, or does that provide something to the bread as well?
>>843 I'll answer my own question, since I'm making my first bread right now. Not sure about the bread, but the dough is fucking perfect, it's very elastic and soft, has a bit of give, and it's not stringy or sticky. I don't know how much it will leaven, but it's much easier to manipulate than my dumpling doughs were (it could also be that I've let it rest more and worked it more properly and have a better idea of what I'm doing now). I'll post results in a few hours
>>833 >>837 >>841 >Gluten Just keep in mind that adding it will make dough more more doughy. It will be more difficult to shape if you overdo it. However you shape or stretch it, dough will gradually return to its form if it has a lot of gluten or if it formed a strong gluten network. >>832 There is keto flours that contain mostly wheat and other grain protein. King Arthur has one. My coworker follows keto and he used keto flour to make tortillas, focaccia, and pierogis. I tried all and would not have known that there is anything different about the flour if I was not told. Alternatively, you could mix in some nutritional yeast. Almost pure protein with some savory, salty flavor.
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There, first bread made
>>843 Yeast very much gives an umami/savory flavor. To show this, yeast dumplings are best: >250ml milk >15g yeast >a bit of sugar >1 egg >500g flour >1tsp salt Mix to make dough. Let rise. Form 3 long dumplings, let rise again, put into boiling salted water, boil on low for 15-20 minutes and turn occasionally. Eat with stew. It's like a sponge. Don't cut, rip. If you eat it without anything, the yeast flavor really shines through.
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>>845 True that you can't dump half vital wheat gluten and half flour and expect good results. Just to add on for anyone thinking of adding vital wheat gluten: You would add the amount of vital wheat gluten to get to the percentage of protein you want for your flour. So, if your AP is something like 9% protein and you want 12%, you would add 3% of vital wheat gluten to your mix. If your recipe called for 100 g of flour, 100*0.03=3 g would be the amount of flour you replace with vital wheat gluten. So, 100-3=97 g of AP flour 3 g of vital wheat gluten >>843 >>844 Oil generally leads to a softer, less chewy bread. Of course, it can also give a contributing flavour depending on the one used. Yeast can actually help to strengthen your dough given the release of carbon dioxide. This could explain why it was easier to manipulate. As >>847 said, yeast also gives a flavour to the bread. >>846 Cheesy bread looking good. Sharing a sourdough bread I made last week with some all-purpose and some bread flour. I dare not show the side because the thing turned out looking like a panettone in my Dutch oven, but the top was nice.
>>758 Yes, there's a massive difference between creating a steam oven and using a Dutch oven proper. I first made a steam oven similar to what you're describing, then moved to a cast-iron Dutch over. The Dutch over is much better. You get a better oven spring. It's worth the money to buy one if you don't have one yet because you can use it for other things as well as baking.
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Made some more sourdough bread using the recipe (https://foodbodsourdough.com/the-process/) I followed from >>848. For this loaf, I added some whole wheat flour and upped the amount of sourdough starter by about 20 g. The final rise is definitely more substantial than what I generally get with my higher sourdough culture recipes, but the sour flavour isn't as pronounced. Next time I'm going to increase the amount of sourdough to 100 g. and see what happens. Otherwise, trying my hand at homemade sourdough bagels because I have some smoked salmon in the fridge. My first rendition was a bust (the dough was too sticky and the method to achieve the hole was lazy), but if the one I'm trying now turns out well, I'll share the recipe and a photo. >>860 Glad to know I'm not alone with that Dutch oven observation.
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>>861 Here are the remaining bagels from my escapade. Flavourwise, they're quite nice, but the roundness is lacking. I used a mix of bread and all-purpose flour and didn't add the additional vital wheat gluten suggested, but I also left them in the fridge over the 24 hours recommended. I imagine it has more to do with the flour, but who knows. Otherwise, my initial shaping was okay, but the moment I pulled them off the parchment paper to boil, some of them got a bit wonky, as you can see. Again, likely a flour or time issue.
>Decide to cut back from 4 tbl of olive oil to 2, so that my bread becomes chewier and tougher >Suddenly it tastes way saltier Did I accidentally add too much salt, or did the flavor become more pronounced because of less olive flavor?
>>866 I've cut back on oil in a bread before and never had it saltier - or, at the very least, it wasn't noticeable to me. Makes me think extra salt was added, or if you changed brands of salt, perhaps the new salt is saltier. But I guess if you try it again, see what happens.
>>867 I didn't think it was the oil's fault, Maybe I fucked up then. It did call for like 1.5 tbl of salt with 2.5 cup flour, so maybe I did 1 tbl in past versions. Does the salt actually do anything to the yeast or texture, or is it just flavor?
>>868 To the yeast, apparently it slows down fermentation so you can obtain more complex flavours in your dough. As for texture, it helps strengthen the dough (and I believe help stabilise the formed bubbles as a result). Actually, if you make sourdough bread, often the recipe will call for an "autolyse" stage. This is when you mix the flour and water (so no yeast or salt) of your recipe into a shaggy mess and let it rest for around an hour. The reason this is done is - I believe - to reduce kneading, so it's not always called for. Then you will add the yeast and salt after this stage. If you try this with your bread, you will see that the salt really stiffens the dough the moment you add salt. I've also waited to add only the salt and it stiffened it up considerably. Try it next time you make bread! On the reverse, I used to work in a bakery and someone asked my boss for a salt-free bread once. The bread came out completely collapsed and dense. I believe there was another part of the bread she asked to take out, but anyway, just to say that it could be detrimental to leave it out completely. Finally, obviously you know about it helping with flavour, but just for extra information, adding salt can also enhance other flavours. For example, I know adding some salt to sweets enhances the sweetness. I believe it can also tame some bitterness, but don't quote me on that.
>>868 Looking at the recipe I wrote down (and the way I wrote it), it looks like I added sugar, salt, and olive oil all at the same time. If the salt shocks the yeast and makes the growth fuck off, I might've done it incorrectly, then. So, this time I made two half batches - the first was allowed to ferment in sugar for 10 minutes, then added the oil, salt, and flour. The second batch has no salt whatsoever. Otherwise, they're the same. I'll be keen to see how they turn out (it'll be 4+4 buns)
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>>874 Alright, so the top half of the tray is bread made with salt, and the bottom half is bread made without. Rather immediately, the round buns I'm having with different taste a little off. I feel like it's the lack of salt, but maybe the sunflower oil changed the flavor significantly from olive oil. Something about it is off, I can eat it, but I'm not going to use this recipe again as-is
>>875 Round buns are a write-off. I can't describe the flavor. Maybe it was pure yeast flavor. It was like a parody of flavor. Top buns taste great, which means it wasn't the oil but lack of salt. >>869 >I used to work in a bakery and someone asked my boss for a salt-free bread once. The bread came out completely collapsed and dense Okay, and now having done that, I can fucking guarantee she was a health nut that was trying to take the moral high ground about how salt is evil for the body or some shit, because that's the only way they could possibly justify eating saltless bread, fucking hell
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>>875 >>876 I always love seeing direct comparisons of slight changes in a recipe. Wish I could have tasted it too. Whenever I've reduced salt, I've noticed the breads to be sweeter, but I've never cut out salt completely either. If I make buns in the future, I should try. >I can fucking guarantee she was a health nut that was trying to take the moral high ground about how salt is evil for the body or some shit I believe she had ordered it for a friend who was undergoing some treatment which required a diet with very limited salt. But yeah, I imagine the customer wasn't happy because it was only ever attempted once.
>>877 I didnt have a good way to distinguish the batches so i made different shapes. The sickly ones were the good ones and the round ones were shit. I could have made them round too. Not sure why they didnt golden up so well (used oil on top of both) Going to try replacing the salt with soy and making a savory roll. Also got some sesame and poppy seeds so I'll be making a few variants tonight
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>>882 For reference, the recipe I've been using: >1 cup water >1 tbsp sugar >1 tbsp yeast >4 tbsp olive oil (now 2) >1.5 tsp salt >2.5 cup flour Once again, I made two half-batches. For the "savory" bread, I replaced the 0.75 tsp salt with 2 tbsp of soy sauce, and replaced the 2 tbsp olive oil with 1 tbsp of sesame oil. Once again, I end up with a very yeasty(?) flavor from what I assume was the fermentation. It's not as bad as the first time (eg, I could eat it without being offended and disgusted), and there's a hint of soy sauce to it, but overall it still tastes aggressively bland. I'm just testing it with butter, it will probably be less awful as a sandwich. Top row of buns is the standard recipe, bottom row is the savory variant. The yeast mixture looks awful, but I kept thinking it was a malted liquid or something and not an Asiastic culinary abortion. I also did different seasoning on each roll: salt and pepper, italian, italian, "everything" (sesame, poppy, salt, pepper)
Wait I just had an idea >Make two batches of dough, with different flours (eg one is AP, one is whole wheat) >After feeding the sugar to the yeast and kneading the flour into it, knead the two doughs together, creating a marbling effect >Let it rest and do everything else as normal Is this how they get that marble bread in store?
>>883 I like your creativity with using soy sauce. I've done sesame oil in bread with sesame seed topping, but never soy sauce. I looked around at other soy sauce bread recipes - since I've never done it myself - and it seems like they usually suggest 3 tbsp or so for a recipe. However, I'm thinking the amount of salt is still less than in your recipe. For example, 1.5 tsp of salt is around 5.7 g of salt. Looking at my soy sauce, per 1 tbsp, I get around 720 mg. If I add three tbsps, I'm getting 2.16 g of sodium only. Consequently, it might be better to either one, add more soy sauce (which could be slightly problematic because soy sauce is not only salt, but has sugar as well, and could start increasing hydration and require more flour to get comparable hydration levels to the original recipe), or two, add some regular salt as well. With option two, you're getting the flavour of the soy sauce, but without having to worry about messing around with other factors. But you know, option one could definitely work anyway. >>884 From what I've seen with marbled bread, generally you ferment the doughs separately and in the final loaf forming, you place them together in the pan. For example, to get a twirl like a cinnamon bun, you would roll out one dough into a thin rectangle, do the same with the second dough (though slightly smaller), place dough number dough on dough number one, and then roll it up and tuck in the edges to fit your pan. I think if you let them bulk ferment together and then shaped, you would get more of a diluted effect in your dough.
>>883 >1 tbsp yeast >2.5 cup flour That's an insane amount of yeast. The hugh amount of sugar is making it go crazy as well. The Einkorn Naan I made today had 2 tea, 1 sugar into a bit over 2 cups flour. Pita (which is supposed to puff alot) is about 2 tea, 2 sugar into 3 cups flour and that's pretty reactive and probably too much.
>>887 Come to think of it, it was probably 1 tsp yeast and 1 tsp sugar. I was writing from memory. Huh. Fuck.
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>>887 >>888 So this is how my friend's bread came out. Like I said, I accidentally gave them a recipe with 1 tbsp sugar/yeast instead of 1 tsp. Is that why it's collapsed as fuck? He also used wheat flour, instead of white AP that I use.
>>891 >>888 Wait what, it is 1 tbsp after all, what the hell https://www.blessthismessplease.com/homemade-subway-bread-recipe/
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Did another batch, but with baking powder instead of yeast. Also added 1 tsp cinnamon. Came out alright, though the flavor isn't really present. Aromatic, though. Not sure why the dough looks so dehydrated - I did a 1:1 substitution with the yeast, though I did not give the dough time to proof or rise or rest or anything, just mixed it up and popped it in
>>894 Baking powder doesn't really give much flavor (aside from when you add too much, when it becomes very bitter). Depending on which type you're using, it may also need acid to fully activate. Proofing or rising time is unnecessary with baking powder. Baking powder can substitute yeast fine-ish, but you can't really just use it like yeast.
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>>891 >He also used wheat flour That's your answer. Pure whole wheat flour breads can be denser than their white flour counterparts. Generally, it requires more water and a longer rising time in order to get a comparable bread with white flour. It can be done, but if you follow a recipe using white flour exactly, you won't get the same bread. >>892 One tablespoon of yeast is a shit ton of yeast, but then the rising time is one hour only. This is probably why the recipe calls for such a high amount of yeast. When I make steamed buns, I use around 5 g of instant yeast, which is maybe a teaspoon and a half for only 270 g of flour. Since you let the dough rise about an hour total, in order to get it risen, you use a surplus of yeast. I would recommend a recipe that uses less yeast and allows for a longer rising time to get more yeasty goodness. >>894 Pretty much with >>895 here. You will get a risen dough, but you miss out on what yeast can offer you. Might I suggest trying a soda bread if you want to try out chemical leavening agents in breads?
>>894 After reading some articles on wikipedia, apparently some recipes do fermentation (this is water and flour and yeast and sugar?) and then add the salt ... but at that point you have a mixed loaf and a tsp of salt, it seems like it would be difficult to mix it in evenly, or am I misunderstanding something? It looks like my pale and sickly bread might be due to oxidation. I'll have to work it a little less next time. But then what about this punch down stage? It seems to call for more oil and kneading
I wonder if you could dissolve Skittles of a particular color and use it as an ingredient Think about it, it provides a fruity flavor, sugar, and some water, too. Green ones had a delightful berry flavor
>>901 No wait, I got it. I'll use yellow ones and make the shittiest lemon poppy bread ever
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Made another batch of kletzenbrot (which doesn't actually contain any kletzen, aka pears). Thought I'd share it in case any of you niggers are interested. This one used homemade dried apple slices, dates, raisins, and cranberries, along with almond slivers, pecans, and pumpkin seeds. >>898 >apparently some recipes do fermentation (this is water and flour and yeast and sugar?) and then add the salt Yep, this is the so-called autolyse stage. There are some autolyses which do not include the yeast either and add it in with the salt, but it depends on the recipe. >it seems like it would be difficult to mix it in evenly, or am I misunderstanding something? It's a bit difficult to knead in the salt, but it can be done. I had mentioned previously how you will notice your bread stiffens up considerably when you add the salt, but you work at it for five, ten minutes and the salt is added. I include a photo explaining autolyse and the link goes into depth of why it is done (generally, reduce mixing time, increase extensibility, and potentially increased flavour). >But then what about this punch down stage? It seems to call for more oil and kneading In the punch-down stage, you do need to knead the bread somewhat because you're trying to redistribute the yeast, but it's not something you usually need to be heavy-handed in. Actually, I thought the pale bread was maybe because you used soy sauce which has increased sugar. I know honey can darken your loaf considerably in the oven, so I imagine sugar is similar. It could also be that your fermentation is too long and all the sugars are spent. Maybe reduce that one tablespoon of yeast. >>902 Do it. I want to see what happens with this abomination.
>>907 I have some errands to do over the next few days, but I'll try it within a week. Most recipes I can find for lemon poppyseed use like 3 eggs and milk, so it sounds like it's more of a cake than a bread. I'm picturing something light and doughy. I mean, it seems like cheating to just take my simple recipe and add lemon flavor to it
>>910 Yeah, looking myself, it seems like all of them are calling for eggs, milk, and butter. So you'll have an enriched bread, so to speak. You could try replacing some milk with the skittle juice... But maybe it'd be better to try it out with your simple recipe so no harm done.
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Cinnamon buns made with pumpkin puree, part of a nutritious breakfast.
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Did two more batches for another side-by-side. This is the same recipe I've been using, but with baking powder in place of the yeast (I'm lazy). The left is bread that mixed, shaped and immediately popped into the oven. The right is bread that was mixed, formed into a ball, rested with a damp cloth for 20 minutes, repeated twice, then shaped and popped into the oven. The crumble is a little better, but the outer texture is significantly different. I think they were both slightly undercooked - I was impatient, and they're not so crunchy or golden brown.
>>955 Def. undercooked but 2nd batch looks better imo.
>>892 Yeah, that's pretty crazy and goes against all I learned. Be aware there's alot of odd recipes out there though. I didn't read though all the post but maybe they are doing something to retard the yeast growth.
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Better batch with rested and punched yeast and effort. Also baked at 375 for 20 minutes instead of 350 for 25
>>955 Interesting to see that baking powder worked. I mean, I guess that's the point of baking powder. But >>967 definitely looks the best out of all three.
Did another round where I swapped the oil with melted butter. No change to the texture really, just a buttery taste instead of olive oil.
Does bleached vs unbleached AP flour make a difference? I can't remember if I asked this before. I feel like unbleached is "better" because its less processed. Both are enriched. If I go with bleached, I can get a 20kg bag for like $6. Otherwise, 2.5 kg bags are like $4
>>975 They run a tiny amount (something like 0.5mg/cwt) of benzoyl peroxide in at the end of milling. It breaks down and releases monatomic oxygen (which accomplishes the bleaching action) and some benzol (which evaporates pretty rapidly). By the time you buy it, there's no trace of the benzoyl peroxide left.
>>975 See >>828. I actually recently used unbleached flour to make pasta and compared it with bleached and tasted absolutely no difference. That's not bread, but doubt I'd notice a difference when it came to bread. Otherwise, what >>976 said.
>Do a round of bread >Hmm this time I'll top it with ... a light sprinkle of salt! >Was actually a moderate amount of coarse sea salt >Literally all you taste is salt, it's shit >Unless... >Realize the bread is crunchy and tastes salty, the only thing it's missing is vinegar >Cut it in half, spray that shit all over the inside >Essentially have baked salt and vinegar chips, but in the shape of a loaf of bread I'm not sure whether I am smart or stupid
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Is Yorkshire Pudding a type of bread? Anyways, I made some, just a basic egg, milk, flour recipe. It tastes incredibly buttery and otherwise bland. Might add a little salt and use lard instead of butter next time. Ideally I'd have some gravy to compliment it
>>990 >Is Yorkshire Pudding a type of bread? All Most British puddings are bread. Reminds me, I made some for Christmas but never posted my holiday dinners. Made mine with rendered beef fat, and I enjoyed it. If it tastes bland, maybe you needed more salt? It's not really meant to taste like much more than fluffy bread, though. It's got a nice texture. Maybe put some kind of topping on it if you don't like it.
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>>989 Doesn't sound too bad! I'd've gone with one half olive oil too.
>>990 Oh yeah so the reason I made Yorkshire Puddings is because I wanted to make some tea biscuits, but I couldn't remember the name, so I went with a recipe I could remember the name of. I'm a moron
>>967 I've been finding that if I make my dough, let it ferment in the fridge overnight (eg, 12-18 hours), then bake it at 300F for 30m (instead of 350F for 20-25m), it turns out with a much better outer texture, with a nice soft crunch on the outside. Doing it on parchment paper seems to diffuse the bottom heat somewhat, so it doesn't crisp faster than the top or sides. I also let it sit out for most of the day before eating it. It was very pleasant.
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How many times will a yeast dough rise? I mixed it all up, let it sit there for 40 minutes, punched it down gently, then put it in the fridge. It exploded out of the plastic I put it in twice. I know a covered bowl is probably best, but it seems like it'll just keep rising.
>>1068 Depends on how you made it. If you made it with a proper sponge it can keep rising for a day or more.
>>1068 It depends on how much food you gave the yeast. As the yeast eats, it will give off gas. When the yeast is cold, it will burn slower, if warm, faster. When you smell alcohol, it has mostly consumed the food. When the food is gone, the yeast won't rise anymore and die off. Make a sourdough starter if you want to see how yeast works/lives.


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