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The Zelda Formula Anonymous 11/17/2021 (Wed) 17:16:42 Id: 92ab4a No. 469298
I've played a decent chunk of the Zelda games by this point and feel that the series has evolved enough to fully realize those feelings evoked by looking at the concept art for the earlier games, which, in my opinion, is the end goal. BotW is effectively a reboot more inspired by the earlier games as opposed to the ones inspired by ALttP and eventually OoT, and while it does do plenty wrong like lacking proper dungeons, limited enemy variety, and no special equipment, I consider it to be an important step design philosophy and a remarkable improvement in pacing from WW, TP, and SS (as well as being the better game in general). With the new one releasing and being a direct sequel, we can be reasonable and assume that it will be like the first game, so instead of focusing on that, how do you want hypothetical subsequent Zelda games to feel? Also, post Zelda girls.
Zelda is the original vidya fairy tale and it hasn't strayed far from that which is why it's succeeded for so long. It's also held true to a core balance of three things: Power (combat), Wisdom (puzzles), and Courage (adventure). Thematically sound and consistent in its best entries and with each represented by a character archetype that's present in every mythology the world over. It manages to capture all those in such a great balance so often and that's the reason why the formula works. Too many derivatives go too far in one direction and become Zelda-like but the something "off" is the balance. Take Darksiders for example. Darksiders was too heavy on the combat. It had the other things (some puzzles, some adventure) but not to the depth of the combat, and it had a great comic book style but it wasn't that timeless fairy tale aesthetic that Nintendo often goes for. It went for heaven-and-hell politicking and eschewed the "hero slays dragon, defeats evil sorcerer by courage and cunning, saves the princess" motif. Link is the vidya equivalent of St. George, or Beowulf, the first vidya mythological hero that isn't just an everyman mascot like Mario. His personality is in his deeds which are performed via you, the player, becoming that "link" that Miyamoto wanted with that name. Zelda is the pure, kind-hearted, wise but often naive virginal figure that is taken by the power-hungry figure that craves power for its own sake. The incarnations may change but the characters remain largely the same, and that's to its benefit for the most part. There will always be tellings of King Arthur, because it's an important story and timeless myth, and as long as there is vidya there will be tellings of Princess Zelda.
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>>604998 Would Shadow of the Colossus be the closest Zelda derivative in terms of all the things you're looking for?
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A zelda cutie that will always hold a special place in my heart is Saria as she was one of my earliest videogame crushes. Although all the lolis in that game where great. And here's a funny story of autistic kid me. When I played ocarina of time and Ruto said that link had to marry her in exchange for the sacred stone it stuck in my mind for some reason, like whenever he was paired with zelda I would get annoyed because in my mind he promised to marry Ruto and it upset me to think that he would break that promise with her. (even thought he didn't actually promise anything but child me never got that). So I always shipped them together, like finding old fanfictions I wrote where they were married in the future and Zelda just married some random prince from another land or something. And it wasn't because Ruto was my favorite like I said Saria was my crush but the thought of link not marrying Ruto after he took the sacred stone and she proposed just upset my child mind.
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>>605167 >saria Top taste.
I wish Darksiders sucked less, and this is from someone who really liked 2(I don't know why either) and Genesis.
>>605072 I'd say it's close, perhaps closest, but it still misses some aspects. The puzzles are the combat which sort of fucks with the trinity. I'd say Ico is closer for that reason.
>>605179 I feel the same about Legacy of Kain
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>>566725 I came to some of these.
>>568035 People would call it a God of War copy, ignoring that God of War is the copy.
There's work being done with a Render98 conversion mod of Ocarina of Time, it's not ready yet but I'll be looking out for it. I'll be looking forward to seeing the shitty n64 graphics revitalized in a more idealized format.
>>605178 Disgusting
>>609387 I still need to eventually go and play Blood Omen. I have it installed, and I played a couple of hours but the actual act of playing it is very boring.
>>474555 Wait Hylia is under the goddesses? Where is that stated, I thought it was the other way round. >>492293 Each Link on average only gets about two adventures, with 4 the maximum. The games imply centuries or even millenia of peace in between each resurrection of demise. Demise sometimes resurrects as something non-ganon (see Malladus, Vaati, Bellum) and in fact the Gerudo have only been responsible twice (once in Ocarina, that one keeps resurrecting and once again in Four Swords Adventures, after Ganon got for reals murdered in TP)
>>604998 A friend recently made me watch Adventure time and it made me realize one thing that keeps Zelda good. It rarely builds 'on' previous lore and never has series-wide cliffhangers. Each game presents mysteries that get varying degrees of resolution, but never bank on implied promises of answering questions in the future.
>>667106 >Wait Hylia is under the goddesses? Where is that stated, I thought it was the other way round. It's in Skyward Sword. I don't recall the specific moment in the game, but there isn't actually that much story in the game (that isn't just whatever is directly related to the NPCs you're helping). If you find a collection of the cutscenes on Youtube and skip around to the stuff where they mention the Goddesses, you'll find it. >>492293 >so they can't shit out yet another Ganondorf There are only two Ganondorfs. Almost every game involves someone resurrecting or freeing the same Ganon from Ocarina of Time. The only one with a reincarnated Ganondorf is Four Swords Adventures. >Demise sometimes resurrects as something non-ganon (see Malladus, Vaati, Bellum) Where is it ever said that those other beings are also Demise? And Vaati exists at the same time as Ganondorf in Four Swords Adventures. I'll ignore the stuff in Hyrule Historia, and say that perhaps Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures can take place before Ocarina of Time (though I haven't played them in a while so I forget if that makes total sense), but Ganondorf and Vaati both appear in Four Swords Adventures. And if we count Hyrule Historia, Vaati is sealed but still exists during a bunch of games in which Ganon appears between Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. But I don't know if I count that. Every other game has very clear timeline placement except for the Four Swords games.
Have you fags seen the final chapters of the Twilight Princess manga?
>>667979 holy shit
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>>667979 Damn. I'm more of an imp-Midna fan, but it's nice to see Link getting some after so many years.
I've beat most of them and my favorites are still OoT and MM. WW and TP not far behind.
>>667979 I am glad.
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https://yewtu.be/BzlROEEMvBs There's a video about scrapped development from a Zelda game by Retro Studios, the concept art rivals the legendary A Link to the Past Concept art in the OP, holy fuck man. The gameplay was shit though and got cancelled
In hindsight, the divine beasts were an ingenuous use of 3D space for level design and, unlike the rest of the game, highly memorable. The scripted segments before them were kind of gay. But, the next game could benefit greatly from expanding on the traditional dungeon element, even if some of the shrines were cool...but altogether ultimately forgettable. What do you think?
guess I have to bump this one instead myself since mods are anal as fuck
>>688724 The divine beasts were memorable because they were the closest thing to a dungeon the game had. I can think of about six or so places other than that, but two of those are story locations, (castle and yiga hideout) three are the mazes, one is the forgotten temple. Shrines could have been good, if most weren't the same copy-pasted combat trial. Locking more of the valuable loot behind complicated and lengthy shrine puzzles would've been a good idea. (Instead of the Hylian shield being a rare drop buried in the castle, maybe it's a reward for a shrine. The mechanics of equipment worked against the game on this point.) I remember a picture showcasing this sentiment, where it was old concept art of Link climbing a mountain finding a temple. Where, for the BOTW comparison, it was just more mountain instead. Shrines didn't look cool. They didn't have the 'awe' factor. Divine beasts did, because you could see them from all across the fucking map. I always use this criticism for BOTW: good framework, poor filling. Most of the game systems and interactions are polished and solid. Combat, inventory management, and equipment could definitely be improved. I didn't like how much the game handheld you with the map but its a modern nintendo game. It must be able to be completed by a toddler.
>>688864 >Shrines could have been good, if most weren't the same copy-pasted combat trial What bothered me most about this was that every single shrine that entailed solving a small riddle or completing a simple puzzle beforehand were all blessing or test of strength shrines. Maybe I'm getting old, and these games aren't made with my sensibilities in mind anymore. But I complete a task, even a menial one, it puts me in the mood for something meatier. Like having to figure something out to access a dungeon in one of the earlier games, like blowing the recorder in Zelda 1 or doing Turtle Rock in ALttP. But no. It's like the game says, "Ohh you did a thing with your brain for a second there, you must be tired, shh shh here's your loot, run along." Thing I hated most about the game by far.
All that said, I'm still excited for the next game. Seeing stuff like phasing through landmasses as a means of traversal and similar new exploration-based abilities gives me a sense that they're starting to "get it."
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=2SNF4M_v7wc https://archive.ph/xz8wa - Twitter The sequel to The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is The Legend of Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom! The Legend of #Zelda: Tears of the Kingdom launches on #NintendoSwitch 5/12/23. #NintendoDirect TotK Thoughts?
>>667979 Getting a smootch from a bitch that bad then getting absolutely denied that pussy would fuck me up something fierce. Horrible ending, she should have let him get some twilight poontang first before leaving, thats the least she can do for all the shit he put up with. Also Midna gave me a fetish for womanlets, especially curvy/thick womanlets.
>>688724 Breath of the wild's main issue stems from the fact that the game is about resource management, so the best use of resources is to go straight to the end as fast as possible, since no other game allows you to manage your resources in this way. Usually you are forced to experience some sort of barrier that lends itself to the resource management, but because you can essentially kill a low level mob to get a slightly higher level mob's equipment through a series of kills and steals, the fastest path is simply getting to the castle, killing one guard there to take their equipment, and then systematically killing everything there so you can get to the final boss. There's obviously no skill that allows a player to simply skip the entire rest of any game, beyond speed running, which is it's own rotten garbage pile, but most games would lend to having something necessary along the way that makes the exploration worth it. I couldn't find a reason not to go straight to the castle and kill ganon, and then after I did it I didn't feel like there was anything in the world I was missing; because all equipment is temporary, because all the hearts and stamina pool are just to deal with challenges that lead up to the final boss, because every armor is just a way to play with fashion, because every quest is made to give you some advantage on your journey, there's no reason to even attempt to conquer every battle in the world, since they are all optional tidbits to sidetrack you from killing ganon The game even starts by running you all around uselessly, meaningless passtimes to stop you from getting at the main mission of killing a demon. It's a waste because I'm sure if the divine beasts were mandatory I would have had much more fun playing the game, but I'm sure I would have gotten through all of those challenges too and then just killed the final boss with little fanfare.
I want the Skyward combat back, just perfected. It can't be that hard to use controllers made for VR headsets, without headsets.
>>492505 >bloodborne It's basically BoTW again but maybe edgier? Idk
>>696029 Until motion controls can give proper feedback and resistance, which is impossible without some kind of exoskeleton, then melee combat with motion controls will always result in waggle and whiffing. One thing I'd like Nintendo to bring back are the StreetPass "invasions" from ALBW. They were fun, and would give a near infinite variety of Dark Link bosses to be fought if you could share your character creation codes easily. For those that missed out, the game would watch how you play and make a simple AI of yourself that you would send to other players via StreetPass on 3DS, and then they could fight your AI doppelganger (with the loadout that you chose) and win prizes and trophies for doing so. Unfortunately I live in a tiny shithole town so I never got enough invasions to complete the list of objectives.

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