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MMO Thread Anonymous 05/16/2021 (Sun) 07:03:19 Id: b7f38c No. 310777
A general thread for discussion on MMOs. WoW: The Burning Crusade Classic releases in June and FFXIV: Endwalker releases in November. Currently FFXIV is crushing WoW in active subscriptions. This is actually a big deal as WoW has been chief MMO for over a decade, now it's been toppled. Truthfully FFXIV was even better than WoW years ago but WoW barely had the upper hand in subscriptions because of the old playerbase. Over time more of that older playerbase have realized the game is shit and not what it used to be and quit. The Burning Crusade Classic is really Blizzard's last chance at reeling back in that old playerbase, but I doubt it will contend with FFXIV. With all that being said, what MMOs are you currently playing or have recently played? I dabbled around with some private servers of old MMOs with you guys but I just got back on FFXIV to do some content I missed and to prepare for an upcoming patch.
>>310782 Last I remember an MMO general thread on here was a couple of months ago. Also I don't play WoW but maybe some anons do and I'm curious if they give enough shit to play TBC classic or perhaps stick to private servers. Was I supposed to make an MMO thread but not mention the two most popular MMOs right now? Fuck off nigger.
>>310784 I played WoW up until a few months ago where I got sick of it and just left and I have no intention of ever going back. Seems like I made the right call as now they are adding in tranny dragons to the game. I would give some other MMO's a go but they never have any servers for my country so fuck it.
>>310787 I live in burgerland and I've played in servers hosted in Japan and Russia before for some MMOs and I have decent internet at best. I don't know what country you're in but assuming your internet isn't shit you could probably play a few MMOs with a decent connection.
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Black desert has been my goto MMO ever since runescape became too dated for me to enjoy anymore. Only two MMOs I've been able to find so far where it feels like they put just as much effort into fleshing out non-combat skills as combat skills. Never been able to last long in a combat focused MMO, it just gets old so quick for me.
>The Burning Crusade Classic is really Blizzard's last chance at reeling back in that old playerbase i think they've already fucked it up. with the deluxe edition, jewing for copying characters (which theyve since lowered the price) and allowing level boosts i think itll still do well, but not as well as classic. >With all that being said, what MMOs are you currently playing or have recently played? i tried the pso2 ngs beta and its pretty fun. i never really cared for the original, but i really enjoyed ngs. i might get endwalker if im not doing anything when it releases, but i really dont like the gameplay of ffxviv unfortunately. aside from those i will most likely get into elyon as a lot of my guild members are and i think it would be fun to play with again like we did in BDO.
>>310791 have they added the ability to play music in bdo now?
>>310789 >I don't know what country you're in Aus and playing with over 200 ping is not fun for me. If developers expect me to pay a monthly sub on top of expansions, I expect at the very least an Australian server and since WoW is the only MMO bar I think Runescape that has servers for us, it was the only one I played.
>>310793 Yeah and only lolis can do it, the way it works is that you can either compose a song or use the music album to browse songs others have composed. Theres even a composing skill that you level by playing music to various NPCs around the world. I was kind of hoping it would be as easy as uploading an abc or midi file like a lot of other games that do this. At least they didn't pull a warframe and make you play your keyboard like a guitar and if you wanted to save any songs you had to play them perfectly all the way through.
>>310795 yeah i just looked it up. it looks pretty awesome. i wish other mmos that ive played like mabinogi, archeage and ffxiv had a composing like this. i already leveled a shai to 50 when she released because loli, but maybe ill try to 56 and give this a whirl.
>>310794 Ah yes, it sucks being an Australian if you like MMOs. If you ever want to try FFXIV you'd have to play on the Japan data center but there happens to be a Japanese server with a lot of English speakers, the Tonberry server. You'd probably get around 120-150 ping playing there.
>>310801 >>310794 ffxiv is actually releasing an aus server soon
>>310803 Is it? usually companies don't give a toss about us because apparently we don't have a big enough player base to warrant servers apparently even though WoW basically disproves this as our servers are damn near always filled.
>>310804 This one new MMO that's still in alpha is supposedly getting an Australian server. It's called Ashes of Creation and it's a western MMO so don't have high hopes for it, even though a Korean MMO would be worse.
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Anons are playing Phantasy Star Universe right now in mmo round table. Get in here >>307264. We are grindan and levelan and gamblan and chillan. Come level up and stare at empty sceneries with us, no invites or gay shit needed, just hop in >Downloading is easy and you don't even need to register on the site, you can just create an account in the game. https://psu-clementine.net/community/index.php?/client_download/ >There's also a wiki with good info on the game, though I don't mind helping in the game https://psu-clementine.net/wiki/index.php/Getting_Started_with_Clementine#Creating_an_account >Me and some other anons who have already played the game have enough experience to help out anyone new and can guide you through the game. The server's also been going through some updates since we last played and they've made it better for early level players, like giving exp bonuses once you've completed daily missions and such. There's also supposed to be a big update coming in May so it's the perfect time to try the game out again.
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>>310807 After a few runs last we grouped up I managed to get a rather nice set of parts, behold the new Captain Zeon.
>>310804 yeah they announced it yesterday at their fanfest. dunno when theyre coming though.
>>310812 Might give it a go if they actually go through with it then.
So Blizzard really is just going to re-release every expansion aren't they? I've never seen a bigger admission of "were incompetent and can't make anything new that's good so here's the same thing as before." >>310798 Until the hosts get greedy or lazy and let the server fill up with ///gold sellers.\\\
>>310861 How popular is wow in chink market? I know they are Tencent but it was mostly mobile shit that was famous
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>>310807 >>310811 >captain zeon Looks better then the real captain zeon they created
>>310861 >let the server fill up with ///gold sellers.\\\ Considering the official servers have official gold selling, it's still better on private servers for the most part.
>>310861 >So Blizzard really is just going to re-release every expansion aren't they? Classic was basically the only thing that saved them after BFA was a complete disaster and now that Shadowlands is another colossal fuckup BC is coming back and then Wrath will when the next expansion for retail is another train wreck and so on and so on.
>>310899 Surely, Boogaloo2 For Azeroth™ will save Blizzard :^)
The one and only thing I care about at this point is server integrity. There's plenty of discussion to be had about combat and progression mechanics, but none of that matters if they can't even this right. No megaservers. You need to physically force a population of people to live in the same world and allow those players to meaningfully interact with each other. YES EVEN FOR THE WORSE YOU FAGGOTS! Economy. All the tools have existed this whole time and yet devs just don't seem to want a decent economy. At the end of the day the only things that will retain value are evergreen consumables. Either consumable in the sense of pots and shit or in the sense of crafting materials. They must also be EVERGREEN! Not useful for 2 hours of game time then never relevant again. Yes that makes your job harder as design space is no longer infinite BUT THATS YOUR FUCKING JOB TO DEAL WITH YOU LAZY FUCKS!
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>>310777 I have been playing Turtle WoW's custom expansion. Its pretty great to have the option to play as a alliance high elf in a vanilla setting. They also re-integrated a lot of cut features and eve made their own quests. Its almost like playing the for the first time again. They even have support for certain challenges like hardcore(where you cannot die) or turtle mode(where you lose exp after death and get 0.5 exp from kills but rewards every 10 levels). Its dare I say...fun.
>>310976 I've thought about trying out Turtle WoW ever since first trying private servers some years back. Call me a faggot but the PvE stuff and atmosphere is what I like about playing MMOs - the competitive aspect never appealed to me much since there'll always be someone more autistic, min-maxed or Asian than you. Honestly, helping out newbies and giving directions was the best part of my time playing on a private server two (?) years ago.
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>>311203 >Honestly, helping out newbies and giving directions was the best part of my time playing on a private server two (?) years ago. >The best part of playing an MMO was actually meeting people all along The moment MMOs were more about Raids rather than meeting and interacting with people in meaningful ways is the moment MMOs died. Why even bother getting introduced to a guild when you can just roll a search que? Why bother building relationships and familiarity when a search que and inflexible meta makes them completely replacable? Why bother introducing people and coaching them when there are six quintillion guides on ideal builds and you can just link that?
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>>310777 >With all that being said, what MMOs are you currently playing or have recently played? I'm still enjoying the SMT Imagine private server, ReImagine to be specific. Each day of the week has a specific dungeon bonus, giving you more currency than usual. Today's reward bonus is for Shibuya Quartz, making it the easiest profit of the week. I'll be grinding plenty.
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>>311367 I logged in today just out of curiosity. I do miss doing the dungeon runs and we never did all of them, at least not all the Gold ones. I'll come back to it after I get my fill of PSU again and maybe we can revive SMT.
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>>311525 I've been taking a break from SMT myself to work on PSU stuff, thankfully I have another week COMP expansion card in my mail for such a time that I go back on.
>>310777 >The Burning Crusade Classic is really Blizzard's last chance at reeling back in that old playerbase Blizzard has already poisoned the well by introducing a paid level boost to 58 and a digital "deluxe" edition (for SEVENTY FUCKING DOLLARS) that gives you some cosmetics and a unique retail-style mount. I was strongly considering resubbing for TBC Classic, at least to experience the first couple phases like I did for vanilla, but this shit is beyond the pale. Porting retail's pay2win cash shop into TBC shows that Blizzard has completely abandoned even the pretense of keeping Classic pure and will continue to introduce more crap like race changes and WoW tokens within the next year.
>>311756 It took blizzard till now to remove the retardedly huge spell batching window from classic. That's something people have been asking since before it launched Meanwhile we get p2w shit in tbc from day one. It's unbelievable how much of a faggot company blizzard is
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Imagine paying for a fucking MMO subscription
>>311796 subscription is the lesser of evils. which does not mean that subscription based games are automatically good, but subscription fees guarantee your game wont have brazilians or children in it while simultaneously allowing the game to fund itself without a cash shop. the worst kind of MMO is the f2p p2w, they're always bad, and the only people playing them are sunk-cost fallacy people who just can't let go.
>>311882 >but subscription fees guarantee your game wont have brazilians or children in it while simultaneously allowing the game to fund itself without a cash shop. If the way you assess the efficacy of a payment model is in how well it gatekeeps people you don't like from using the software then you're a complete fucking retard. Software as a service is never permissible. There is fundamentally no difference between a F2P and a subscription based MMO. They're both software as a service and not even remotely necessary to have your software remain profitable.
>>311885 whats your alternative then? you have this giant world that you invested millions to develop, you release it to the public, and you have to pay people to maintain the servers, people to moderate the users (for cheating etc.) and you have to develop some content updates once in a while to keep users engaged. if subscriptions are unacceptable, whats your solution? people are not gonna moderate/develop for free like they do on imageboards. >>311893 you're making the TORfag look reasonable by comparison.
>>311896 >you have this giant world that you invested millions to develop Nothing about game development necessitates that you invest a lot of money. Good games have been made in less than 2 years with minimal resources and bad games have been made in a decade with hundreds of millions in resources. >you have to pay people to maintain the servers, people to moderate the users (for cheating etc.) Let people run their own dedicated servers and lease out your own servers to people too retarded to spin up their own VPS, like multiplayer games have done for decades. >and you have to develop some content updates once in a while to keep users engaged. Sell the content updates. >if subscriptions are unacceptable, whats your solution? people are not gonna moderate/develop for free like they do on imageboards. People have ran their own servers however they felt appropriate for decades. There is no reason an MMO style game can't let users run their own dedicated servers in the exact same way, in fact that is the only ethically permissible way to let people interface with your software. This is not some outlandish concept. I buy software, then I get to use that software indefinitely regardless of whether or not you want me to. The fact that we've normalized software as a service is ridiculous.
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>>311896 personally i think runescape has the best subscription model out of them all, but i would upgrade it by making bonds be purchaseable from NPCs instead of allowing other players to basically do RMT by selling bonds. have a free section of the game, say about 5-10%, where players can do a limited amount of activity to gather money, then they can go to an NPC in the game and purchase membership time with in game currency or jump straight into membership with cash. that way the game gets monetary support and you cannot purchase an unfair advantage into the game. >>311903 >Nothing about game development necessitates that you invest a lot of money you need to invest a lot of time, and time is money. also, the good games that were made in 2 years (which is a lot of time by the way) aren't MMOs, at least not good ones. >let people run their own servs okay so everyone plays in their little box, thats not an MMO. or at least not a populated MMO >sell the content updates good god m8, i know im replying to a tornigger but you wrote an entire bible just to say "LMAO BRO b2p IS THE SOLUTION". its not. name me 1 successful b2p game that has managed to keep tens of thousands continuously coming back to buy new expansions. people eventually move on/get bored and then no one buys your expansions and you have to shut down. >people have ran their own servers yes, they run servers of games that have already been developed by multi-million dollar companies. they didn't make the game, they didnt invest millions of dollars worth of time and manpower to get there, they took a finished product and emulated the server code. >i buy software
>>311909 >you need to invest a lot of time, and time is money. also, the good games that were made in 2 years (which is a lot of time by the way) aren't MMOs, at least not good ones. There is nothing about an MMO that necessitates a massive resource investment. Especially not with knowledge and tools we have in current yet. There are also different kinds of MMO's and the resource demand for one could be radically different than another. >okay so everyone plays in their little box, thats not an MMO. or at least not a populated MMO This just goes to show you have no idea what you're talking about. The WoW private server scene operates entirely around people self-hosting their own various versions of CMaNGOS and a lot of those servers see active user bases in the hundreds of thousands each month, more in the WoW private server prime days years back. This is a system that has proven to work fine for all games including MMORPG's. >name me 1 successful b2p game that has managed to keep tens of thousands continuously coming back to buy new expansions. people eventually move on/get bored and then no one buys your expansions and you have to shut down. Most buy to play MMO's don't stick with a single game and single engine indefinitely. This approach to game design is unique to developers who have locked themselves into the subscription based revenue model so it's basically impossible to make comparisons. Guild Wars has servers running to this day and it's a buy to play MMO that is still actively played, no sub required. Because believe it or not, running game servers doesn't actually cost that much money. Competent game development doesn't result in a game that has been worked on continuously for 20 fucking years straight. Games should be started and finished, not an eternal drip feed of shittier and shittier skinner box content to keep you entertained just long enough to tick over to the next months subscription. >yes, they run servers of games that have already been developed by multi-million dollar companies. they didn't make the game, they didnt invest millions of dollars worth of time and manpower to get there, they took a finished product and emulated the server code. I'm not sure how this is supposed to be an argument. Do you think 99% of source games are commercial failures because they let people host their own servers and respect the agency of their players to host and create custom content for a game they don't own the copyright for?
>>311818 (You) >>311882 Why do I have to keep paying if I already paid 60 dollars for the game?
>>311997 nah charging for the sub AND the game is gay. it should just be the sub. unless you're buying some collector edition crap i suppose but at that point you're just paying for plastic collectibles. again i think runescape has the closest to a perfect monetization model there is, save for the detail of letting players profit off of bonds. >>311937 >making MMOs is easy its not, out of all the game genres its the most resource intensive type of game. you're retarded >private servers they didnt invent the games they run servers of, null point in terms of this argument. >guild wars nobody plays guild wars in 2021, and if they do, they do it in private servers, which doesnt really motivate the devs to make more content. see point 2. also guild wars 2 was a failure. >games should be started and finished not MMOs. you need a lot of people, and to get a lot of people connected at the same time you need the game to be extremely lengthy so that theres a constant large pool of people for other people to team up with. >source games i dont even know what you meant by this line. dont really care. the overall point here is that when you spend years working on an MMO to be good (because an MMO developed in 6 months with unity will inevitably be shit and a kickstarter scam) you need to feed the people working on the story, the music, the graphics, the systems, the netcode, and everything else for however long development lasts, and that'll run you several million dollars, which your game has to make back during its early life. and to do that you need to monetize the finished product. the 3 ways to do that are sub2play, buy2play, and pay2win. there are no other ways of making the money back with an MMO. buy2play works short-to-mid term, game dies after interest stops new buyers from funding further updates. sub2play works the best long term and keeps most retards, beaners, pinoys, and poor people (AKA children) away. pay2win takes a big shit over the game but makes the most profit for the company that put forward the initial investment, it is also a short term strategy.
>>312048 >its not, out of all the game genres its the most resource intensive type of game. you're retarded Depends entirely on the kind of MMO. Slapping the label "MMO" onto something does not suddenly make it inherently more resource intensive. The scope of some MMO's can be resource intensive compared to the scope of other games, but that does not mean every MMO in existence could not survive without a subscription payment model. We already know this to be true. >they didnt invent the games they run servers of, null point in terms of this argument. Whether or not they invented the game or not had nothing to do with your argument. Your argument wasn't that holding copyright over the game dictates how active decentralyzed servers are. Your argument was that server decentralization itself would result in low population servers defeating the point of a massively multiplayer game. I disputed this by pointing out that there have been widely successful private servers running off of FOSS implementations of the back end to older WoW expansions. Try to keep up, anon. >nobody plays guild wars in 2021, and if they do, they do it in private servers Plenty of people still do. To the point where the game is still constantly full price. I don't even think there are GW private servers. >not MMOs If your qualification for what makes a good MMO is that it's an unfinishable skinner box drip feed then I guess we just fundamentally disagree. It sounds like what you're after is something highly specific and are willing to sacrifice your autonomy as a consumer of software in order to achieve it. >i dont even know what you meant by this line. dont really care. You responded to the fact I pointed out self-hosting servers for multiplayer games is common by saying they don't hold the copyright to these games. I responded to that with utter confusion because it was wholly irrelevant, and it seems you've become lost in the absurdity of your own argument as well in the process. Quite entertaining. >the overall point here is that when you spend years working on an MMO to be good Wrongly assuming MMO's necessarily require bloated resources. You're basically just conceding that the only developers that make MMO's are incompetent so they need to deploy exploitative revenue schemes to makeup for their bloated and incompetent development cycles. When you're confronted with MMO's that don't or didn't have bloated incompetent development your only response is that because it could be infinitely maintained and developed for it must be a bad MMO. For you to consider an MMO good you mandate that it does things no other game is expected to do. You've built a narrative where the only good MMO is one that can only be sustained by an inherently unethical revenue model. >Guild Wars, dude only a few hundred monthly users play that game after 16 years and it was only actively developed for 5 years that's a shit game Your standards for what makes a successful MMO are so absurd they border on hilarity. It's like you think MMO's are Linux distributions or something rather than fucking video games. And the fact you can't conceive of an MMO with a good enough gameplay loop that it doesn't need content updates for the next 600 years straight every 6 month just goes to show how addicted you've become to terrible skinner boxes. Go touch some grass retard.
Is Guild Wars worth playing? I've never played it. It's a one time buy and no subscription right? I heard the Steam refund shit doesn't work on it anymore.
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Since you two anons are arguing, what the hell even makes an MMO an MMO? If we need lots of people, what is the bare minimum? Sure, Guild Wars 1 was an MMO, but you still had 4-6 people generally out on the plains that you grabbed from town. Toon Town was a similar sort of deal. I know it's retarded to call other games MMOs (looking at you, Tarkov) when their gameplay is more akin to something like a lobby shooter, or a co-op game, but where do we draw the line there? >>311213 I'll always say raid finder and dungeon finder were nails in the coffin for MMOs. Why bother interacting with people when you can just press a few buttons and someone will pop in, usually geared to the role you were searching for? WoW and Everquest's design choices are still killing the genre as we know it. It doesn't help publishers are still in the train of thought if they just release a similar product that people will flock to their shiny new game instead. They don't realize that vidya in general require something new to entice people. Most people are not going to drop their time investment and the friends they made along the way >implying MMOs are like this, I know but work with me here to play the exact same game but have to work their way back up. Couple this with the delusion of getting WoW numbers at it's peak and the pressure that devs feels and you end up with low quality games. It doesn't help MMOs that are in development right now are facing all sorts of internal and external issues. Chronicles of Elyria turned out to be vaporware, Camelot Unchained (one I'm looking forward to) got a publisher and is working on two games at once? They did claim to stop doing this, but who knows with the way devs treat their would be players. Someone really does have to release one decent sandbox MMO, literally anything with a neat gimmick or two and I'd be happy.
>>312070 MMO's that lean towards sandbox elements are more true to the original concept. A "true" MMO has a world that is somewhat open, perhaps with resources that need to be contended over. A modern "true" MMO might be something like Albion Online. Then there's instance/lobby based "MMO's", which have "open" lobbies where people can hang out to queue up for instances. These are mostly just MMO in name only, or put such little focus on the MMO elements of the game that they might as well be dismissing themselves from the genre. Most MMO's could probably just be classified as online RPG's.
>>312057 too long didn't read
>>312070 an MMO is a Massive Multiplayer Online. the O isn't really important because being online is inherent to being massive multiplayer. if a game is Massive Multiplayer that means that hundreds of players should be able to coexist within the same instance of the world simultaneously, thats essentially what MMO means.
>>312076 Not saying you're wrong, but just going by that logic shouldn't WoW be an example of what an MMO should look like? I'm not even a fan of WoW but I know you can see hundreds of players out in the open world and there's raids with as much as 25 players, and there is one with 40 players right? Honestly as someone who's played a lot of MMOs, raiding is the most fun aspect especially when a large group of players is involved. WoW also has world PvP where you can see hundreds of players in a literal war fighting in a zone.
>>312094 Early WoW is basically the quintessential MMO regardless of how many people don't like it.
Is there an archive of all the old Runescape music? I want to remember, and I know it will hurt
>>312094 thats because it is. WoW is a bonafide MMORPG. you might not like it, i don't like it honestly, but it is. >>312104 Everquest and FFXI are both MMORPGs too.
>>312104 Not sure how that's relevant.
>>312104 WOW features many innovations over EverShit, and FFXI is a carbon copy of that game (or was before all the expacs).
>>310791 Wow, cute. Are there SFMs?
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>When everyone hated something in an MMO but you liked it Do you guys have any examples?
>>312113 the grand exchange for me
>>312113 Advanced classes in Phantasy Star Online 2. Everyone says the hero class destroyed the game by being so retardedly overpowered, and to be honest, they're half right. However, I also feel like hero broke PSO2 out of a rut it had been stuck in for a very long time by adding animation canceling to photon arts. Put simply, hero took PSO2's combat from "good for online game standards" to good compared to anything short of Devil May Cry or Platinum games. Unfortunately, Sega fucked up a ton of other things at the same time they added hero, so hero ended up becoming the symbol of the beginning of the decline of PSO2. Fit girl semi related. Sega upgraded PSO2's graphics engine a month or so ago and added the same kind of skin shaders that porn games use, so now, characters can have a wet/sweaty look to them. Hopefully, summer will convince other players to set their girls to summer fun mode when the inevitable beach emergency quest comes around.
>>312136 dunno, game feels kinda stale now that the whole focus is on New Genesis, all scratches are now retool of old clothes and hair for the NGS body-models
>>312138 I think just about any veteran of the game will agree with that. PSO2 is definitely on its death bed. I'll be shocked if it ever gets any new content outside of scratches it shares with New Genesis, to be honest. I knew it was going to be dying soon, but it's sad to see it die for such a blatant attempt to pander to the west.
>>312113 It's reading quests and lore. Half of my friends are fags who will skip over an entire storyline because, "We gotta hit the end game content!" and don't realize that MMO's shouldn't be about hitting the level cap and then looking for things to do. An example of this was in Black Desert when we were playing that for a bit much to my disgust later when I realized all of the glaring issues. Someone had asked out of the blue if I knew which faction was fighting the one we were doing quests for and after I laid out a summary of what and why, I hear, "See man, I told you he'd know." Well shit man, God forbid I find a reason to become invested into the thing we're playing. Just a shame that it was 90% afk grinding and 10% actual pressing keys that aren't alt and tab to switch back to anime I'm binge watching
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>>310877 You shut your whore mouth. >>311213 >The moment MMOs were more about Raids rather than meeting and interacting with people in meaningful ways is the moment MMOs died. <2007 was 14 years ago It's been that long?
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So I just found out there's a Saint Seiya MMO that came out all the way back in 2012 and I never knew. Are there any other licensed anime MMOs out there? I know there's Dragon Ball Online. You would think weebniggers would be all over these games but they're rather obscure.
>>312215 Anon, stop it. Those things hurt more than you think they do. Besides, it was a long time ago.
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>>312216 I don't know what you're trying to say
>>312217 It has more to do with the production of those games and the promises that were made along with the official authors getting involved in them. Long story short, both projects fell, only a beta was released in South Korea / Taiwan and nowadays both games are run by trannies that own private servers. Among the promised things were definitive endings of both series penned by the authors and to their credit, at least Toriyama did pen a great amount of shit and people were quite happy about it for a time. In fact, a lot of it was repurposed for Xenoverse 1 and if Battle of the Gods hadn't happened, the Beerus subplot would have been taken out and you'd have something very close to the offline version of DBO, without the open world. Similarily for Saint Seiya since the status of Saint Seiya Next Dimension with the publisher so it was to have a storyline in the future with budding Saints ascending to Gold and putting an end to the whole shit going on. To my knowledge, unlike DBO, Saint Seiya is still fucking broken as a game and has zero redeeming qualities. Obviously none of that played out like that and a lot of weebs back in the day, that wanted an MMO to have a spergy old time, didn't get that and got hurt. Among them were some /a/nons from back in the day that refused to talk about these. DBO did have a great opening though and great support from BandaiNamco for a time if you can believe it. The opening was produced by them and they oversaw the development of the MMO for a time and even had programmers help the koreans that were making them by sculpting the models to be more Toriyama-accurate.
>>312223 Well their first mistake was trusting koreans to make an MMO. And also both of those anime don't really work in the form of an MMO. Like Saint Seiya really isn't that popular anymore and it wasn't in 2012. I mean The Lost Canvas was good but that ended right before the MMO came out. The only thing new out of the series is CGI netflix trash. As for Dragon Ball Online the combat is like tab targeting which doesn't fit for Dragon Ball at all. If it were dynamic action combat I could see that MMO being more popular. Come to think of it, I don't even know what licensed anime would work great as an MMO. Maybe one of those Isekai animes where the story is actually in an MMO. There actually is a .hack MMO called .hack//fragment. Not sure if it's playable and if it's good.
>>312238 I'd play a high fantasy MMO set in Record of Lodoss War tbh
>>311756 This is why I'm not planning on touching it. Classic had at least some degree of integrity, and a number of its issues were player created (The GOTTA GO FAST TO 60 mentality, metaslaving even in objectively piss-easy content, etc.). I'm not sure I'll ever get to experience anything quite like leveling on Classic when it was brand-new ever again. >All those people running around the starting area >Making it to Bloodhoof Village nearly empty, and seeing dozens of people running around it by the time I headed off to The Barrens, which was also near-empty >That one time in STV some jackass hunter tried to kill me but just got fucked in return, and on the next try, I took out his pet as well just to rub salt in the wound >That one time I ganked an Spriest who was killing an AFK player in Felwood, then spent the next 3 hours stalking me across multiple zones >All those dungeon runs with people who just wanted to enjoy the game instead of running Scarlet Monastery over and over and over to level Even if I basically knew the world in and out, it still managed to somehow feel fresh.
>>312238 >Well their first mistake was trusting koreans to make an MMO. Nobody knew any better back then, these things started back in 2009-2010. Koreans were the "masters" of MMOs back then, the only MMO more popular being WoW. And, Vindictus came out in 2009-2010 IIRC? How could not anyone not be excited upon seeing the "future" of MMOs back then? >And also both of those anime don't really work in the form of an MMO. Yeah but you could also make that arguement for a lot of games based on anime <Dragon Ball doesn't really work in the form of a Card-based RPG <Naruto doesn't really work in the form of a turn-based RPG <Saint Seiya doesn't really work in the form of a Musou <Hokuto no Ken doesn't really work in the form of a Musou / Yakuza game And so on. I get it, it's a valid concer and at times complaint, I won't pretend I haven't made that complaint either but back then people and /a/utists were really thirsty to have some MMO they could call their own and do shit they always wanted, it's why the authors got involved and made an actual effort to make new, future-based stories, so that the player could be in the place of Seiya / Goku etc. Go through their adventures in his way and have his friends help him. MMOs were mostly played for the Multiplayer and friends part at one point if you can remember that far back. >Like Saint Seiya really isn't that popular anymore and it wasn't in 2012. <HowIknowyourefromNorthAmerica101.txt Ribbing aside, Saint Seiya saw as small revival back in 2005 with some PS2 titles obviously released only in Japan, Mexico and non-english speaking Europe and then went on to get revived with mroe fervor due to Next Dimension, the OVAs, the announcement of the CG movie and new games on the PS3, like Saint Seiya Senki / Saint Seiya Sanctuary you know where it released by now and everyone went apeshit. Toei saw that the gravy train hadn't died and the movie was a success so they pumped more games that also came to america yeah, you received the repuporsed, recycled Musou game into a shitty Naruto Storm clone and you even got the Netflix deal much later which we all know how it turned out. >Maybe one of those Isekai animes where the story is actually in an MMO Fuck no, are you crazy? Those are the ones who are the worst for MMOs despite shouting that they are "totally an MMO dude". I'd be like trying to fight like Sagat in real life just because he says he practices "Muay Thai". They work far better as A-RPGs, closer to what .hack did so many years ago. Even SAO, the KING of those isekai MMOshits, can't work on anything other than multiplayer A-RPGs with a single player campaign and even then, the companies responsible for it fuck shit up very hard. >Not sure if it's playable and if it's good. Imagine .hack the first quadrilogy but as a multiplayer online mod, with limited character creation and only on the PS2. There you go. It was meh.
>>312285 >>312158 The issue here is that this is the logical endpoint of a loot-focused game. Remember WoW was modeled off of Diablo and that game went through this exact same process. Blizzard was just too stupid to realize that what might be fine for a single-player game with optional coop is suicidal for an MMO. Funnily enough, nobody else seems to have realized this either which is why every single WoW contender crashed and burned because they tried to compete with a formula that was doomed to go to shit from the very start. WoW was only able to work with it for so long because of the community its first two expansions managed to foster but everything after that was just them chipping away at their own game. Simply put if the only incentive/thing to do in your game is to level up and get gear then eventually no matter what the whole game will devolve only into that. Blizzard basically sealed its fate with TBC when it effectively negated everything from Vanilla and told people to start from 0. In vanilla, at least some stuff from your leveling process carried over into max level play, not a lot but some of it so just rushing to 60 was not necessarily the best strategy for everyone but after TBC that went out the window entirely. Then they expansion after expansion made their own systems less and less relevant to a point where now the game has literary nothing else but auto-farming gear and raiding. Their design philosophy was essentially that "if it does not work on the first go it will never work". So instead of fixing the retarded elemental resistance system from Vanilla they just removed it. Instead of making professions less of a grind and more a choice(by adding more branching professions for example), they trivialized them. Instead of reusing old zones and content(new bosses or quests) they always basically threw them out. Instead of making dungeons with more shortcuts, they turned them into corridors and so on and so on. Professions make me especially angry because they would have been a great way to facilitate player interaction and would add more to the game besides just farming bosses for random drops. They could have put more emphasis on crafting, maybe by moving some of the top gear sets into the "craft-able only" category or having certain crucial items be exclusive to crafting(like ammunition for bows and guns). Maybe make some high-level mats from old zones useful for new gear. You know work and expand the systems they had instead of gutting them because the community did not develop a stiffy for farming elemental water. >>312156 I have been saying for years that almost everything WoW gets credit for is either stolen or made by the community(for example the spell bars were an addon before Blizz included them, same with quest helper and many more). The problem is most people have never touched anything besides WoW and basically assume that WoW was the first MMO.
>>312462 >you see a bloated budget is actually inherent to a genre because strawman
>>312515 >>312462 Huge budgets are kind of inevitable for MMOs since they are by default meant to be games that last for hundreds of hours and need to be internally very versatile(a.k.a you need a lot of animations, sound effect and unique models to actually fill up the world without copy pasting every three steps). That being said a lot of modern MMOs have bloated budgets because they are pursuing a line of design that only works with a bloated budget. Some YT celeb called it "roller coaster" type MMO and I think it fits. Because most MMOs these days are just very elaborate roller coasters where the players just look at a lot of set pieces and then click on something for X amount of minutes to get Y amount of reward and repeat. They do not feature any kind of game systems that let the player make their own fun or force them to make their own systems, its just all premade set in stone BS and unless you have tons of that BS than the players run out of stuff to do extremely quickly(check modern WoW where players blitz through all the content in a matter of days for reference). Something a bit more open would cost less overall but it would not take you from needing 100 mil. down 10k.
>>310861 I've heard people say Classic is far more populated than retail. Every expansion they've released in the past 7 or 8 years has followed the same pattern of "huge" initial player base buying the expansion > player base dies off to nothing within a few months because the game sucks > announce new expansion that promises to fix all the things that made players quit the current expansion. Blizzard is quite literally building their expansions with player retention as the only metric that matters. >>311937 MMO development also has the added pressure of need to recoup millions, if not hundreds of millions of dollars. Add public companies, bean counters, investors, and quarterly reports, and it's a recipe for a shit show. So companies play it safe, copy what they think will work, and they end up with stale, boring, mediocre bullshit. Then the game goes into alpha/beta, players realize how awful it is, the devs try fix the problem, but because the devs were trying to play it safe instead of building a game from the ground up by following a vision... you get shit like Amazon's joke of an MMO. I apologize to the English language for my last few sentences. >>311213 The phrase an anon coined years ago is still relevant to this day: modern MMOs are like playing single player games with rude NPCs. >>312285 I had a good experience on a WoW private server a while back. This was during the server's launch. I was leveling a Warrior, and another Warrior of the other faction tried to gank me (and failed) in the mid 30s. He was a pretty good PvPer. Unfortunately for him, I'm as good as it gets when it comes to playing a Warrior. And so I proceeded to kill him over, and over, and over again during the trip to 60. Didn't matter if he had other players with him, I'd still beeline for his party and slaughter everyone remember kids, Sweeping Strikes + RFK rage armor clicky melts people. In the 50s, he just stopped fighting back because he knew it was pointless. >>312347 WoW was modeled off of Everquest, you fucking dickweed.
>>312721 >modern MMOs are like playing single player games with rude NPCs. I wish. Most players don't even interact at all because a bad interaction could get some fag to ban your account for "being a dick" or whatever bullshit they come up with. Everyone just goes solo or with a party that talks outside the game so they don't even interact with the other players. They have even less impact than NPCs.
>>312316 <Naruto doesn't really work in the form of a turn-based RPG <Hokuto no Ken doesn't really work in the form of a Musou / Yakuza game The two Naruto Path of the Ninja games on DS were pretty good and I've heard the Hokuto no Ken Musous were alright. I've played the Yakuza-engine one and the combat was alright but everything about the side content was shoehorned in. Though I did like the story. Companies should still experiment around with making licensed anime MMOs. Regardless if they'll turn out good or not, it's a simple way to get hundreds of thousands of weebs that love the specific anime to play the game. Then once they've realized they got that many people excited logged into the game they can decide rather they'd want to improve it or keep it the same as a cashgrab, unfortunately the latter happens most often but there can be the rare case of developers actually giving a shit. >>312560 That reminds me of this Canadian MMO that was in kickstarter last year or the year before and the developers got a handout of like a million Canadian dollars from their government and the game fell flat on its ass. Forget the name of it but the concept was it was like No Man's Sky but as an MMO.
>>312462 >defending subscription models I bet you defend Netflix and Onlyfans too.
>>312756 Server costs are negligible. It's ironic that you mention understanding the real world or how these things can be applied to reality without understanding the basics. The real upkeep with an MMO is in customer service, which ought to be offset by decentralizing the server distribution and letting people run their own servers. There is nothing stopping anyone from making a low budget MMORPG, releasing the binaries for hosting your own server, and occasionally releasing new expansions for people to buy. Nothing about the genre necessitates that it be modeled around the systems that it always has. The only argument anyone has proposed is "dude trust me MMO's cost a lot of money to develop" without actually outlining anything specific that makes that the case. An MMORPG can literally just be me setting the player limit in a Diablo 2 lobby to 600. The idea that having a lot of players in a single instance automatically multiplies the resource cost for a game 10 fold is ridiculous.
>>312741 Is there not a free-to-play MMO where the only items you have the option to buy with real money is cosmetics, nothing that gives you an advantage over someone in the game? I think depending on how that MMO looks and plays it can make a profit enough to sustain the game. You'd be surprised at how many people buy cosmetic shit in MMOs and people wouldn't complain about it being pay-to-win.
>>312767 >having a massive number of players in a role playing game is not the same thing as an MMORPG! Feel free to bestow upon me your arbitrary definition. Server costs are negligible, letting people host their own servers is fine, you've proposed no argument against it and we've seen it work before with WoW private servers just fine.
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>>312786 He is retarded but I he has half a point in there somewhere. Theoretically you could make a "decentralized" MMO that relies on private individuals to host their own servers with their own spin on things. Sort of like Minecraft servers function now but on a slightly deeper level. I could imagine a cut-down version of WoW and then licensing the SDK and the right to host servers to make back the money. Development of content would be offloaded onto "private" servers while your company would only bother with adding new engine features and graphical features. It could work, cut down costs and decentralize the MMO but it would require the maker to effectively accept having 0 creative control over their "game".
Hey look this thread is swiss cheese for some reason THANKS MARK
MMOs are dead as fuck since social media requires even less of an investment and people use it for the same shit. Why shit up a clan when you can drive a real human being to suicide and destroy their family too?
>>313233 This entire board is swiss cheese for "some reason". Scrolling back through a threads old posts just seems totally pointless because the likelihood that you'll actually be able to follow the train of thought with all the deleted posts is next to nothing. Either get in on these conversations as they're happening or be doomed to not know what the fuck anyone was trying to talk about after the fact.
>>312994 >you're retarded but everything you're saying is perfectly feasible
>>312994 if you make it decentralized then its not an MMO. if everybody hosts their own server to play alone or with a small group of friends then its not an MMO. if hundreds of people join one server instance then its an MMO, but if that were the case, why even bother making it decentralized and having tons of small depopulated servers, when the game most likely necesitates that you have hundreds of people online simultaneously and playing constantly to create an economy and a "living world"? successful private servers of an MMO still have a centralized server that everybody connects to. MMOs suck because everyones following the formula for the next big thing blissfully unaware that the last big thing only became the last big thing because it invented its own formula. there's like 6 big name MMOs in development right now and they all look, sound, feel, and play the same.
>>313426 >if you make it decentralized then its not an MMO. Not even remotely true. If you have underpopulated servers they aren't conducive to a good MMO experience. But the act of decentralizing the servers themselves does not mean every server has to be underpopulated. >if hundreds of people join one server instance then its an MMO, but if that were the case, why even bother making it decentralized and having tons of small depopulated servers, when the game most likely necesitates that you have hundreds of people online simultaneously and playing constantly to create an economy and a "living world"? Because it gives the consumer agency over their software. >successful private servers of an MMO still have a centralized server that everybody connects to. It sounds like the term decentralized is being either misused or misunderstood. WoW private servers are decentralized in the sense that they're just re-implementations of the same FOSS core most servers use, but with their own tweaks and changes. Ignoring the fact most of these used to violate the license by not publishing their changes, this system was and is ideal because it means I the player got to choose which server addressed my needs in terms of both ethics and gameplay. There are WoW private servers where the scale of the end-game content is tuned for less players, there are WoW servers where the game is tweaked so the focus is entirely on max level PvP, there are servers where the focus is entirely on role playing with custom texture and model packages, so on and so forth. Just like there is every wacky creation imaginable on GMOD there are wacky creations that were made with the code made available through over a decade of reverse engineering the server side scripting for WoW. In a world where software is ethical it doesn't matter if a developer is a fucking retard, or if they abandon their game because it isn't churning out enough revenue. Just like TF2 still sees community developments despite the fact Valve abandoned it WoW was worked on despite the fact Blizzard ignored pleas for older expansions until recently. When the consumer have complete control over the software they're purchasing and only then will the "MMORPG" genre be saved from itself. As long as you're still at the whims of a developer and a central authority and merely licensing access to a black box server somewhere in the world the genre will always be doomed to fail.
>>313430 the software might be decentralized but if everyone connects to the same server to be able to play the game properly, then your game is still centralized. when that server is gone everyone will scather or gather in a new server to repeat the same mistake. there is no way to make an MMO decentralized and populated. so dont give me lip about muh software ownership. if you spent money making a game you would want to see a return. pretty easy to talk smack about software freedom when you got nothing to contribute and can only consume, you have no dog in the fight. you could argue about making the software opensource or freeware after the main server dies, but developers still gotta eat and make money.
>>313505 Once again you're treating a genre uniquely for no tangible reason. Just as I wouldn't accept Left 4 Dead having only developer owned servers I won't accept an MMO having only developer owned servers. You're arguing that MMO's are so unbelievably shit that the only way they can sell enough copies to justify making them is to actively exploit their consumers with degenerate pay models. >but left 4 dead would have never been developed in the first place if they didn't lock down who is allowed to run servers for the game and make custom content for it This is how ridiculous you sound. You can make the argument that no developer is willing to take a financial hit based on the ethics behind how they distribute their software, I'd even agree with you mostly. But the notion that this is some sort of financial impossibility is just wrong. This has nothing to do with whether or not something can be done. It has been done, we've seen it done. I can say that no AAA game will get developed anymore unless it is filled with microtransactions. That is a relatively true statement, because companies have seen how insanely profitable it is. This can both be true and morally reprehensible at the same time. I can say that the entire industry will continue to move towards mobile and we'll steadily see the eradication of real games. But these market realities have no bearing on the argument that I'm making, which is that it is possible to make an MMO without a billion dollar budget and give your customers the kind of agency over their software that they deserve, like being able to play the fucking game they bought regardless of whether or not you think they said bad words in the game or even have an internet connection.
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>>313541 >left 4 dead >mmo
>>313607 >can't comprehend simple analogies I wonder what life must be like going through the day without an inner monologue. Sounds peaceful.
>>313613 >i-i-its just an analogy bro yeah, and its shit. you can't compare a 4 player game to an MMO, you dumb nigger. thats why diablo 2 let you play LAN, and thats why L4D and Diablo 2 are not MMOs.
>>313620 It's a fine analogy. The comparison is in that there is no reason I should not be allowed to run my own custom L4D server in the same way there's no reason I shouldn't be allowed to run a WoW server. I'm super curious how you reconcile why one is permissible while the other is not.
>>313640 >permisible who the fuck talked about permision? im talking about making the game functional and you go on a rant about MUH FOSS MUH LIBERTY, you can't even read the context of the posts you reply to.
>>313644 There have been WoW private servers that have seen hundreds of thousands of active players. So the argument that the act of self-hosting results in some magically instant low player bases is bizarre. Are you going to hold a consistent position or just dance around making an argument or saying anything of substance? My point has nothing to do with FOSS. L4D isn't FOSS. 99% of games aren't FOSS. The issue isn't about free software, it's more about DRM and self-hosting.
>>313649 my position hasn't changed. but you and tornigger keep flipflopping around and moving the goalposts from funding to foss to instances to ownership. im not gonna go over it again. you can read my posts by following my ID which hasn't changed luckily because my ISP decided to stick me with one IP during this period of time.
>>313652 No one has said anything about funding FOSS projects. You talk about flip flopping and tracking the conversation yet you're just making random shit up that you can't actually quote. Unless you have something you want to directly dispute or argue against stop responding to my posts with inane bullshit you fucking retard.
>>313656 read from the beginning if you're gonna talk shit (2).
<<313657 >Unless you have something you want to directly dispute or argue against stop responding to my posts with inane bullshit you fucking retard.
>>313426 >if you make it decentralized then its not an MMO. >successful private servers of an MMO still have a centralized server that everybody connects to This is literary just arguing semantics. Decentralizing server hosting capabilities is not the same as turning the into a single player experience. The "multiplayer" part of MMO will always require some kind of a server to connect said players. You cannot work your way around that but you can work around who can and cannot host them. >MMOs suck because everyones following the formula True. >When the consumer have complete control over the software they're purchasing and only then will the "MMORPG" genre be saved from itself. Also true. Why are you two arguing again?
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>>313335 Its retarded because its still a huge financial risk. Even a stripped down MMO takes millions to develop and there is virtually no guarantee that you will make that money back. It only alleviates some of the expenses but again it does not shrink a 100 million budget into a 10 million one. Mitigating a problem is not the same as solving it. Plain and simple. >>313652 >multiple people make multiple statements <Y-you flipflopper, stop it I am winning.
>>313680 No one has made a single statement about "funding FOSS projects" in this thread. Not one single post even mentions that. I'm not calling him a "flip flopper", that's what he accused me of doing for trying to pin down what the fuck he was actually arguing against. >Even a stripped down MMO takes millions to develop and there is virtually no guarantee that you will make that money back Saying this over and over again won't make it any more true. And it won't make anyone accept morally abhorrent payment schemes when we already know it's not only viable but an objectively better consumer experience to have self-hosted servers. All games are expensive to make. All games are huge financial risks. You're just applying every issue with game development and pretending that they're unique to a genre that is literally only defined by an indefinite player limit on instances. Your preconceived notion of what you expect an MMO to be is the only reason you think they are inherently expensive.
>>311532 ReImagine just got a big update. The most important parts are: Material Tank updated to hold many different types of collectible items to save tons of storage space Shinjuku UnderWonderGround returned and rebalanced WILDCAT mode added to dungeons that didn't previously have it And smirk
>>312215 there are private servers of those still active
>>314336 >Material tank Fucking nice My inventory was near full and stuff I needed to not throw away
Anyone here play FFXI, like a private server of it? I remember like a year ago there was a thread up of anons playing on the Eden private server.
Since WoW is reported to no longer be #1 in players, do you guys think private servers are going to jump back up a bit in population?
>>315178 That entirely depends on how much Blizzard will fuck up TBC classic. If it somehow turns out OK than I would not expect much of a growth but if its going to develop like Classic did then I would expect a massive outpouring of players to private servers.
>>315201 Well they're already selling character boosts and paid for cosmetics, which is far worse than the simpler changes they made with Vanilla classic. I'm just wondering how long re-releasing the same expansions will last with normalfags because even the few people I knew irl who played classic dropped it as soon as they hit max level. That plus the news that FFXIV is topping WoW's numbers makes me hope people are finally tired of rehashing the same product at least when it comes to Blizzard IPs. I just wish private servers would actually do something unique beyond "hey guys we've got a 3x multiplier instead of a 2x" because they all do nothing and players drop out because of that. Server-wide events, custom content... imagine how big one of them could have gotten if they'd come up with the battlepet idea before Blizzard did?
>>315255 There are private servers that do interesting things. TBC5Man in particular is one of the best custom servers I've ever played and is tuned quite well. All the raiding is designed for 5 man groups instead of 25. Plus there's ascension WoW which is a "classless" server where you can get any talent. In practice it's a bit of a shit-show but the idea is innovative. I think more and more servers are starting to actually innovate and expand on the game these days. The issue is usually that the people running these projects are always sketchy subhuman slavs who refuse to release any of their code in violation of the license for cmangos which they all use as their core code base. Speaking of which there's a 3.3.5 private server called chromiecraft which is fully FOSS and releasing level brackets every month or two to actually develop the open source code for the game by getting people to test the world thoroughly. The WoW private server scene would probably be light years ahead if it wasn't almost entirely comprised of retarded greedy slavs trying to fuck each other over constantly.
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>>315255 >selling character boosts and paid for cosmetics That is indeed bad but not really a game breaker. it all depends on how far they will let it go. If it end with a few boosted clowns parading their bought mounts nobody will really give a shit and TBC classic will be a "success". If however it spirals into more shit in the ingame store, more boosted gold farmers, more hackers and more morons chasing after max level for the sake of speedrunning black temple then it will be fall apart. Blizzard tends to forget that on its own WoW, even at its absolute best, is shitty diablo clone. What made it special was the community surrounding it(that was of course vaguely informed by some of the design choices but those were more accidental than intentional) . If they let that community rot long enough with gold farmers, boosters and other pests it will fall apart. >I just wish private servers would actually do something unique There were a couple of servers that tried that but almost always they fell apart because of shit head management. Primal WoW wanted to simulate progression from Vanilla to Wotlk but the retards running the server could not accept that Vanilla content is easier with Wotlk classes and instead of fixing bugs or class balance they wasted time creating bizarre solutions to make old dungeons hard again. Which nobody wanted or cared about because why else would you like to experience Vanilla content on a Wotlk client. Before dying and merging with some other server they had 100 active players, they started with like 500-800. Ascension started with an interesting idea(classless WoW) but quickly turned into a blatant cash grab that was buggy and unbalanced on top of that. The only server in recent memory that is doing this custom content thing right is Turtle WoW. They are essentially just taking the Vanilla framework and building on top of it with new zones, dungeons and world bosses. Its actually really interesting but I can already see there seeds of retardation that could destroy it from inside. For example they are willing to bring back beta features like the survival profession which lets you basically have always rested exp gains or give mage the ability to unlock locked boxes but then they turn around and refuse to do anything about the class balance. So everything that sucked about playing a druid, paladin, shaman or hunter in Vanilla still sucks but hey rogues can now disguise themselves as trogs and you can play hardcore mode where if you die your character is deleted.
>>315052 I was one of the ones who played last year. You need Korean-tier autism to keep up there. There is something about playing an MMO before that makes you not want to replay it as much which was the case for our GM and such. Due to those factors and the low player turn out, it ended up being mostly me and one other anon who clocked the most hours. Not to mention there was some friction, drama, between us so it wasn't exactly the ideal group experience. GM had a hint of elitism around him. He needed to loosen up since we were nowhere near to being an endgame guild so there was no reason to talk shit as much as he did. Also, he mostly dipped out of playing (in favor of other games) since only 2 of us were on most of the time. I don't blame him for doing that at all. I set my expectations too high, again. As for that other anon, me and him didn't get along very well. Let me point out that it was both our first time playing FFXI. We both had different ideas how to enjoy the MMO. I was more of an Explorer while he was likely an Achiever. All he cared about was making a ton of in-game money and treating the experience as a time waster. He openly bragged about watching moe anime on a SECOND SCREEN while doing the fishing mini-game all day. He despised doing the story missions and hated teaming up with players. Like holy fuck dude, if all you wanted was to see numbers go up then just play Diablo II or something. Really, no one gives a crap if you have a billion Gil in the bank. Making money eventually becomes a chore and it sucks. All I wanted was to play the actual game and progress to its end. I had to do that with other guilds since ours was often dead. I completed the main scenario and progressed through most of the expansion stories before I quit. I would have preferred to walk this journey with fellow anons but unfortunately it never happened. You need to hate yourself in some level to put up with this game's slow, immersive bullshit. Don't get me wrong, I had fun but isn't the point of these private servers before the QoL/Casualization changes supposed to be enjoying the experience with friends? Otherwise, you would have to rigidly poopsock and minmax your way into being a one-man army. By that point, you've played yourself whether you are aware of the fact or not. Yes, I'm still mad. Jewing your guildmate is never okay.
>>315378 You guys should've picked Nasomi instead of Eden. It has a bigger player population and the best expansion included in it. Would've had more fun playing that and maybe people would've stuck around and wanted to do the content.
>>315486 I signed up for the old school experience and got it so I'm more or less satisfied. I know such suffering is not everybody's cup of tea and that is fine too. The best part was not needing to pay a subscription for this 15 year old content. And I've played 2 other MMOs to endgame back to back before that one so I am taking a break from this genre for a long while.
>>315378 I played there too, and the 'tism is expected when playing with anons. Though the moe lover being soulless was a given. How else could you enjoy moe anime? That being said, FFXI is definitely a game you need to go into with a strong "enjoy the journey" mentality. My first experience with the game was with friends and it was a very enjoyable one. >>315486 Nasomi has been dying for 2 years. Nasomi's autism has led him to refuse any kind of help from the community. Which means that he's policing, enforcing, dealing with bug reports, fixing bugs, implementing and releasing new content, maintaining the infrastructure, and manages the community. That's way too much for a single person, and some areas suffered. Mainly, there's barely been any content in the past 2-3 years (or whenever he released ToAU), and the server has been overrun with hackers. Zone crashing, automated tagging, duping, terrain exploits, etc, etc. The population's left the server in droves, and it was what led me to reroll on Eden in the first place. Go look at Nasomi's population numbers now, it struggles to break 400 players on peak hours.
>>315273 >retarded greedy slavs If it were only Slavs it would be easy to single them out but this is a almost universal private server problem. They are always trying to fuck each other over even though realistically it guarantees them nothing. On that same note I think a huge problem is that every server seems to be stuck in a "expansion mentality". Meaning they are exclusively focused on mimicking the feel of one specific expansion and ignore everything else. So instead of experimenting with Vanilla content but with TBC or Wotlk balance they only make copy paste of TBC/Wotlk. Instead of trying to make the best version of the game they can they are chasing only specific expansions and that is simply too limited for any kind of actual innovation.
>>315632 Well that really sucks about Nasomi. I really like Chains of Promathia and it's the only private server as far as I know that has it. Not gonna pay the monthly sub for the official server.
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>>315255 I want to elaborate on this a little bit more because it's really my biggest gripe with MMOs beyond power creep and min-maxing meta bullshit. Even in the best scenario where things aren't automated and you actually have to socialize and interact with people to do things or get places, there's so much downtime between getting everybody together and actually running dungeons and raids, or even between point a and point b. Out of the entire weeks of my life spent playing WoW I don't want to know how much was spent just standing or sitting around. Why not include some minigame, or social challenge? Duels are a thing sure, but why not craftable puzzle boxes or board games or anything else completely novel and entertaining? Blizzard made bank off of battle pets, but I bet my ass if they made Hearthstone an in-game feature that alone could have saved subscription numbers. Like this anon >>315378 said, people are just doing other stuff while waiting for the game to get somewhere. Why leave a game so full of empty space and useless time? The peggle add-on was the best add-on ever. >>315795 It is an absolutely ridiculous fantasy of mine but I would give my left nut for a team to release a fan-made expansion for Vanilla/TBC. Completely new content, zones, class, cities, quests, talents...
>>315795 >If it were only Slavs it would be easy to single them out but this is a almost universal private server problem. They are always trying to fuck each other over even though realistically it guarantees them nothing. But has there ever been a non-eastern european hosted server before? They almost all seem to be made by slavs. I guess technically nost was a french made server, but nost was pretty unique in the devs not being ultra scum fucks. >So instead of experimenting with Vanilla content but with TBC or Wotlk balance they only make copy paste of TBC/Wotlk. Instead of trying to make the best version of the game they can they are chasing only specific expansions and that is simply too limited for any kind of actual innovation. Well for a long time it would be silly to focus on game development rather than emulation because the emulation simply wasn't there yet. If a developer couldn't even script a boss fight then expanding on the core game balance and design was kind of goofy. But now that the core emulation for the first 3 WoW expansions is basically perfected, and in some cases arguably just straight up better than the "real" thing we're seeing more servers customize things in interesting ways.
>>315803 >a fan-made expansion for Vanilla/TBC. That is sort of what Turtle WoW is doing. Its not exactly all out yet but they have already managed to incorporate high elves and goblins into Vanilla. Now they are working on new areas, quests and dungeons and they seem to be making solid progress. My only concern with them is that they might fall into the age old Vanilla trap of "shit = hard => good". So instead of fixing obvious vanilla problems they just declare them "part of the experience" and then wonder why no one wants to join a server where half the classes are broken. Thus far it does not seem that way as they showed willingness to fix some balance issues, like giving paladins back their holy strike ability. But if you know anything about Vanilla class balance that is far from fixing the core of the problem. But its on the right track. >non-eastern european hosted server before? I think plenty are from the west they just hide behind easter-european hosts to skirt around Blizzard lawyers. I think warmane is one such example(although I could be wrong). > silly to focus on game development rather than emulation The things is that most did no focus on either. The ball crushing majority of servers I experienced had put very little effort into perfecting their emulation, best case scenario they would create workarounds. Warmane especially was more focused on denying the existence of bugs rather than fixing them. Besides emulation up to Wotlk was more or less 100% figured out around 2015. Its just that most of these servers were super lazy and asking them to do anything besides the absolute bare minimum was treated like asking for their kidneys. Seriously at one point I suggested on a low pop realm that we should be allowed to que both dungeons and BGs to shorten que time on both ends and the response I got was made me question whether I did not just ask for free T10 set.
>>315986 >pic haha lol what if she put it on just kidding haha
>>315803 >so much downtime between getting everybody together This is because MMO designers often conflate tedium with challenge. It super obvious in Vanilla WoW since well over half the "challenge" is nothing more than just a tedious grind. The legendary weapons are not about beating some challenge that tests your skills like with the Benediction questline. Instead they are just retarded grind fests that make you and 40 people re-run the same instance X amount of times so that 1 dude can get a cool weapon. The funny thing is that the further down Vanilla you go the harder those weapons are to get but only because the grind gets more and more ridiculous. The requirements to get Atiesh make getting all the other legendaries look like complete jokes. Although a huge part of the problem is that most MMOs do not bother with having actual solo content. Instead they just trivialize group content by automating it.
Would you agree/disagree that WoW ruined the MMORPG format?
>>317260 yes, though most of the blame should be upon other mmos failing to innovate.
>>317260 I think the bigger damage has been done by Koreanshit.
>>317267 Normalfags turned to koreanshit because it was the only alternative to WoW after 15+ years of everything being a clone.Developers literally act like there's no other way to design an MMO.
Never played WoW before and picked up a subscription a month ago. Leveling is fun, world pvp is one of the best parts of the game. I'll be trying to do a quest but there's some alliance dude chilling there so you I sap him and quickly skip dialogue just to get the quest done. Big fun. Doing the reverse, camping an area so War Mode alliance can't complete a quest is really mean and satisfying. Dungeons are cool if you have somebody better than you to remind you what the mechanics are. Timing keys is really hectic and you can have some great experiences. My stack picked up a Bear tank to run a dungeon. Every pull he just aoe'd the pack and then shimmied backwards for some reason. He would only get aggro from the front couple mobs and the casters had free reign on the group. It was completely troll. At some point we just couldn't keep going because he never had aggro and although our healer was cracked he couldn't manage 5 different players (ranged mobs would literally los onto healer because tank had 0 threat) taking damage from different trash. We lost the key but it was fucking hilarious when somebody started hard-flaming the tank in chat and he responded in caps spanish. The moment to moment story is pretty terrible, but the overall story is nice. All in all I'm probably only going to finish out the month and let my sub end there, but I had a fun time with it. Why do people say shadowlands is a bad expansion? Is it the poz stuff? There is very little and although its annoying I honestly didn't notice until it was pointed out to me. I never played wow before so I have no idea what changed and etc. that made new WoW terrible.
>>317288 you need to download third party addons for boss mechanics you have to keep grinding every week or you cant keep up. your class might not have enough dps or utility to be picked list goes on >>317267 >>317269 feels like truth is in the middle
>>315279 so what was everything that sucked about playing a druid, paladin, shaman, or hunter in vanilla?
>>317288 Playing WoW for the first time it probably plays alright because you have no context for any of the issues people have. Basically every WoW expansion is fun for the first month or two. The issue is that after the first couple of months is when you run into the fundamental flaws with the expansions design. Some of these are tolerable depending on the kind of player you are, some aren't. Legion for example, which is generally regarded as a "good-ish" expansion, made me quit within a few weeks because I didn't RNG the legendary I wanted before raiding and they nerfed the fuck out of my class. The fact that the class you're invested in can be radically changed all the sudden is a huge issue in new constantly developing WoW expansions. It's one of the biggest selling points of private servers and going back to older expansions in fact. You know exactly how each raid tier plays out, you know what gear you'll have access to and when, your spells and abilities won't suddenly do 30% more or less damage based on a patch. The game just is how it is and you get to go into it knowing exactly what the decisions you're making will entail. The issues with retail/modern WoW plague people that have played the game for a long time much more than they plague random new players just casually checking it out. Classes have been gutted in one expansion only to have the abilities that were removed reintroduced back to the game later as features and "new" abilities. Entire systems that worked fine for a decade are removed and reintroduced with shittier clunkier systems just because they need another box to tick for an expansions new thing. They've solved the issue of a perpetually developing MMORPG by just taking shit away from you at the end of each expansion then giving it back in progressively more contrived and tedious ways. The games development is plagued by designers that are obsessed with having perfect systems, but they're all completely incompetent and disconnected from how the average player experiences the game so those systems end up being unrewarding and exhausting. Developers are on record constantly contradicting themselves and stating things like "we have data showing people do X thing a lot so therefore it was a well designed system", completely ignoring the fact that everyone hated the system itself and the only reason it had high engagement was the fact the system gave rewards relevant to player power and progression. Modern WoW developers are autistic in the worst possible way you can be. They see numbers and ignore all the context surrounding them and base every decision they make in a cold analytical way that results in the most anti-fun retarded shit imaginable. WoW has both some of the only competent MMORPG game design while also having some of the single most incompetent development decisions made in game development history.
>>317616 They all pay the "hybrid class tax". Essentially blizzard hired a bunch of Everquest chuds to help run and design wow and those guys just hated classes that could do more than one thing at once. So they hobbled all the aforementioned classes in different ways to make up for the fact that they can do more than one thing. Paladins are glorified buff bots with no real options when it comes to dealing damage or tanking. So out of three specs the only one viable is holy. They have a total of 1 damage dealing ability and on top of that there is no gear for them in the game. So for the most part they feel like shitty priests. Also unlike any other class in the game they get 5 minute buffs while everyone else gets 30 minute ones. So have fun rebuffing the whole group every 5 minutes Retards defend this by saying that if you overgear its actually. Because obviously all the other classes are shit until EQ Druids are much the same. Three specs but only one is actually viable as all the others either have no gear to support them(feral druid) or are simply so badly put together that even a "best in slot" character is still hot garbage(moonkin). Shamans are pretty much the same as the above two but unlike the other two they get windfury which makes them sometimes OK at PVP. Hunters are fucked because they have to use mana and perpetually keep on leveling their own pets(while also feeding them and buying ammo) again with little to no gear to support them. So they are constantly out of money and mana. The thing is a lot of these issues are very easy to resolve. Reduce mana cost, buff damage, add one or two abilities but Blizzard never bothered until TBC to fix any of it. The worst part is that this generated an entire generation of retards who think that this is somehow the natural state of things and will insist that Paladins being buff bots or that shamans just spammning healing wave is good design and "part of the class fantasy".
>>317296 On the one hand, WoW stagnated multiple generations of MMOs. I wrote above that publishers and suits were an issue because they saw that WoW was massively successful and thought incorrectly that all you needed to do was copy a bunch of the elements of the game and release it, not realizing that games shouldn't really work like this, and that it'll take more than a carbon copy of a product people already own to make them switch, especially considering the time/emotional investment. Publishers unironically thought they'd have millions of people lining up to buy the same thing again and stick around. On the other hand, Gook Grinders took as many terrible elements of MMOs and hashed them together into an abomination. My personal bias against BDO notwithstanding, the computer cafe culture really lead to time and money sinks usually heavy emphasis on the latter being confused for vidya. As a whole publishers and developers are coming up with more and more horrendous ways to introduce P2W features into games. The BDO "value" pack (a subscription under a new name) for instance does everything from increasing bank spaces and upping your inventory space and carry weight (in a game where the currency has weight) to lowering the tax on their socialist auction house. You are legitimately gimping yourself by not either buying one outright or hoping you can catch one that someone throws onto the market. The worst part is that it feels like we're caught in some shit tier timeline where fun MMO's are either killed before they can be released or are vaporware for stealing people's hard earned cash. Which is a shame because a sandbox MMO done even half decently might illicit enough of a response for developers to try and go that route.
>>317862 sgreed Also gook grinders took the worst parts of WoW and monetized it. >Want a weapon decent enough to enter a raid? Theres a cash shop for that.
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>>317296 >feels like truth is in the middle It was a combination of factors or steps if you will: First step was taken by Blizzard when they introduced a MMO model that was both successful and easy to reproduce. The second was the western industry nuking itself out of orbit by trying to compete with WoW by making shitty WoW clones, leaving the market empty and ripe for harvest. The third step was koreans slowly getting a share of the emptied market simply by not making literal 1:1 WoW clones. Fourth step was them refocusing hard on P2W cash grabs. The thing is that there is genuine and real demand for MMOs that much was made clear in 2004 by WoW. The problem is that most of the industry heads did not realize that wow was a "flash in the bottle" kind of scenario that you cannot really replicate with a single game. Half the reason WoW was successful was because it built on top of the Warcraft series which started in 1994. Meaning that technically Blizzard ran a 10 year long campaign before they released WoW. The second half of its success came from relying in the new crowds over to MMOs so most of their customer had literary 0 expectations and standards when it came to the genre so even a basic bitch Diablo clone like WoW seemed amazing to them. Obviously none of that can be replicated with just a single game. If the industry got that then the first WoW clones would be appearing at earliest around 2010 and would be based on already long running IPs. Instead they swarmed the market with shitty wow clones and immediately crashed and burned simply by virtue of being shitty wow clones. And they kept it up for long enough that now the term MMO is almost synonymous with WoW. So any new MMO is automatically measured not on the basis of merit but on the basis of who much more WoW it is than WoW. Of course that is a game you will always lose simply because you cannot out-WoW World of Warcraft. This is something I realized this when my local gaming magazine compared Age of Conan with WoW and basically concluded that Age of Conan is not WoW. They did the same for several other MMOs afterwards and the diagnosis was always the same, its not WoW. Shocking, I know. So even when they were writing about other games they were still tacitly advertising WoW.
>>317929 >Half the reason WoW was successful was because it built on top of the Warcraft series which started in 1994. Meaning that technically Blizzard ran a 10 year long campaign before they released WoW. Feels like no mmo ever thinks about this part when they make the game >And they kept it up for long enough that now the term MMO is almost synonymous with WoW. So any new MMO is automatically measured not on the basis of merit but on the basis of who much more WoW it is than WoW. >They did the same for several other MMOs afterwards and the diagnosis was always the same, its not WoW. Shocking, I know. So even when they were writing about other games they were still tacitly advertising WoW. Agreed, and that kills innovation in the mmo industry, no modern game can stand on its own two feet without a WoW comparison.
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>>317935 >>317929 I feel like now the only way to recapture the mmo 'magic' is to completely forgo the traditional route - have nothing like wow. no fantasy, no hard classes, no dungeons? A very different type of game, which doesn't even mention mmo. Not just to please journos but to attract audience with new shit. What would you want to be kept in the game and what removed?
>>318056 Well, there was an mmo that piqued my interest until i saw the graphics It involved building starbases that looked like kowloon as well as ship building.
>>318056 >WoW is traditional Classic nu/v/
>>318079 everquest has been supplanted and devoured by wow no point in getting angry over it
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My dream MMO is probably something like Blade and Soul, but multiplayer. The first dour acts were really really good at the time, but every act after that started seeming smaller and more single-player. Nowadays it seems every time I get my boyfriend to hop onto BnS so we can catch up on story, it immediately throws us into solo instances despite us being in a party, and never let's us rejoin each other again unless it's to run to the next instance. The combat was fun as hell and the fashion can be so adorable. I love character customization and I love outfits. I have, like, 200 outfits and I only paid for 1 of them (and in hindsight, even though I dislike the game now, I think I should have paid for one more outfit, the pinky bear one) Vindictus has fun combat and the armors can be pretty neat. I crafted a lot of outfits, but I hate how almost everybody else looks. Medieval sort of style game but every player I see is in some ugly office slut outfits or micro bikini trash or some other modern outfit that is out of place and hideous. The only one I appreciate is the people that use the blood streaks tattoos/makeup and color it white so they look bukkake'd That amuses me. And, again, I do like the combat quite a bit. It was especially good early on when it was new to me. My favorite is the hammer, but most impressive is Evie's magic. Time after time, magic gameplay has been really not engaging to me, but hers felt great. Honestly really nice, and that's after I had played BnS which had horrible magic gameplay. Force Master honestly worst class in the game. I have played a bit of FF14. Level 40 bard, something around that. I really enjoy making music, it's one of my favorite features. I usually do classic zelda tunes and people always clap. It is a bit hard though. I still fumble with the keys to play music, but it wouldn't feel right to use an addon to auto-play. Combat-wise, the game is perfectly OK. It's like World of Warcraft to me. Classic hotkey gameplay. It's been so immensely long since I played WoW that I honestly can't tell you which I like more. The story in FF is engaging enough. The side-quests aren't. I realize I forgot to mention story for Vindictus, it's absolute complete and utter shit that only gets worse the longer you play. The first season is actually enjoyable in a "this is pretty anime" way. Season two was jank, three was worse, and it just becomes so dang boring. FF, on the other hand, seems to have a nice plot going. Eventually I'll go back to playing it with my fiancee and get to the end of the free trial. If my best friend is free, we may sub to the game and play as a group with her blue mage. I just want cool combat and lots and lots and lots of cute things, honestly. Ideally a game where skill can significantly compensate for poor gear, like Blade and Soul used to be. (still is fun to play that game and do old dungeons really early in leveling and try to win despite the weak party/gear/etc.)
>>318104 >Blade and Soul I went back to get ready for unreal engine 4. What a fucking nightmare, within minutes i remembered why i left. Here i am complaining about WoW when BnS exists. >Force Master honestly worst class in the game. Thats not Blademaster >I have played a bit of FF14. Level 40 bard, Only people who cleared ARR have a say . Not because your opinion isn't valid, but because FFXIV is pretty shit when you're in ARR.
>>318111 >Thats not Blademaster I heard a lot of bad things about blademaster, and it's not my favorite or even top 5, but it's really fun. Fire spec is pretty, and elegant, but not very engaging, it's lightning that really grabbed my attention. It was my first attempt at a solo character back when they had that 'get to level 45 for in this span of time and get this outfit" for the warlock thing. Warlock seemed like shit and I didn't want to use warlock to do it, so I made a BM. I enjoy deflecting with careful timing, and it overall feels like a really stable character to play as. That's not nearly as thrilling as some classes, but it's steady and strong. A little too stiff and slow. Blade Dancer is one of my top picks. I solo'd tons of stuff with the use of bladeguard and vortex to deflect everything. It was rough, but I felt like a gosh dang monster. Just like Blademaster, lightning is the best spec. Actually, I think lightning is ALWAYS the best spec, isn't it? In every class, that seems to be the ideal (until they started adding third specs). I never personally had a lightning assassin, but I did play one and that was pretty gosh dang strong and fun too. Hard though. Destroyer DESTROYS. It wasn't at all what I wanted going into it, but it was fun. I was hoping to feel like power and muscle given form, to feel like I have a giant axe that stops for nobody. Instead, I anicancel so hard that I don't even hit them, I just wave the axe like a magic wand and their health drains. Still cool though, and fun. I love picking people up too. Kung Fu Master is SUPER fun. I tried wind and fire and fire felt better. I tried to get into the third spec when that came out but it was difficult for me to adapt to. I feel badass with that class though. I bring the slaps. It's so fast and radical, and much more easily defensive than Blade Dancer. Maybe it's because I played BD first, so I wasn't as good in general back then, but I do think KFM is designed with better survivability. Warden is what I wanted Destroyer to be. Warden is swinging MASS. Warden is why I tried Vindictus! Feels OP and EZ though. Without even being good at the class I was able to breeze through pretty much everything. I could do dungeons that my other characters needed to be real careful going through and I could be careless the whole time. I have Resilience, I can weather the storm, frenzy, and recover faster than anything could possibly take me down. Just a juggernaut. An absolute juggernaut. Archer was the newest class last I played, and I had thus far the impression that ranged play was SHIT because gunslinger is SHIT. 0 fun. No good. Unfun trash. Force Master is ranged too, the devs just can't do ranged well except with Summoner but that's different. Yet despite my expectations, zen archer is SO good. It's incredibly fun. Warp around the battlefield loosing arrows, laying traps, diving in close for a big hit and dashing right back out, stacking things and nuking and dang that's a fun class. And so strong. I could solo things as archer that I barely could as warden. Thanks to my BF and my BFF(I ain't leveling a dozen characters myself), I think I played every class in the game at least a little bit, besides warlock which never sounded good. And based on me playing way too much of this game over way too many years, Force Master is shit. Gunslinger might be worse, I couldn't even remember it when I wrote that. I'm glad I never made one on my account. >FF14 is shit in ARR I've enjoyed it despite that, so that's a good sign. I hope there's no solo-only stuff to deal with, I play MMOs for group play and group play only and I'm still salty about BnS ruining that
>>317929 >>317935 It is the reason WoW was so popular when it got released, and is still a one-of-a-kind thing not many others have done. Even other MMOs at the time didn't have much pre-existing story or audience to start from. >Agreed, and that kills innovation in the mmo industry, no modern game can stand on its own two feet without a WoW comparison. This is, I think, as much a problem with suits as it is with the game designers. (((Directors))) look at business and numbers and see WoW is #1 and everyone likes it, so they tell the devs to make the game more like WoW. The devs get it drilled into their heads that this game has to be like WoW or it won't succeed, even it goes against the project or design philosophy. Which came first? >>318056 >What would you want to be kept in the game and what removed? Keep >A player-based economy where people can rely on others for most of their professions/materials/services >World and art design that stays consistent and interesting >Compelling writing for people who actually like RPGs and reading >Freedom in shaping someone's class/character (even if it's just choosing your own talents and skills like WoW used to let you do) >A steady sense of progression that isn't locked to end-game content or large-person raids Remove <Automatic quest guides and map markers <Group finding tools <Shitty daily quests that are completely uninvolved and repetitive <Links to real-world money (microtransactions, cosmetics, boosts, WoW tokens), unlikely to happen <Chinese gold sellers, also unlikely to happen <Basically anything that kills motivation for social interaction or replaces it with something automated or buyable
>>318131 Its fun but its shit, climbing pvp is a chore, almost always bottom tier dps. I don't need to be #1 but being consistently bottom is morale breaking compared to every other class. At least when another classes at the bottom you can say well at least warlock provides some utility and buffs, not so for BM. >blade dancer I like Blade dancer just fine, nowhere near BM levels >destroyer Used to be top tier until the nerfs now destroyers lament the good old days. >KFM Yeah people who master that class really enjoy it, i keep wanting to give it a shot but i wimp out because im afraid itll be difficult >Warden Was fun >Archer I hear nothing but good things, even people who like Gunslingers prefer Archers >I've enjoyed it despite that, so that's a good sign. Then you'll enjoy the rest > hope there's no solo-only stuff to deal with There are for story only, and there's been progressively more of it, kind of irritating because it also syncs your gear. >>318143 >The devs get it drilled into their heads that this game has to be like WoW or it won't succeed Which is a shame because like the other anon said, these games cannot out WoW world of warcraft. So they're shooting themselves in the foot.
>>318205 >almost always bottom tier dps A difference in outlook. "Can you win?" is all that matter to me, not "Can you win quickly?" ...Though the further things got in the patches, the more DPS-checks seemed to creep in. Still, BM can do it. I think the community obsessing too much over being as overly geared as possible defeats much of the appeal in a game with combat so skill-intensive. Gear is a crutch, not a requirement. As for PvP, I was surprisingly able to do well back in the early days when they were especially considered a joke, and as recently as two years ago rose to Silver in a trivial amount of time, and felt I could get gold. It's not much to people that prefer pvp, I don't care for it myself, so Gold is considered really good to me. I go such long stretches of time without PvP that every time I return to it, I feel surprised how profitable it is (when at pre-raid-tier gear) >>318143 ><Group finding tools The best way to experience MMOs is by bringing your own friends with you into it. Sharing or close to that spot is making friends with people casually throughout your adventures, some that last and some that don't. If you don't have friends, I do wonder if it's better to have some kind of group-forming tool so the people working in the same area are able to gravitate to each other. On the other hand, if they're made to pursue group-forming without a built in structure for it, maybe that's a lot better for them both in improving their social skills and in having a satisfying experience, as groups you didn't have to make yourself may not feel very attached. People may coldly separate right after and little bonding occurs. Would those types of people have ever grouped up if that structure wasn't provided for them? beyond that I think I wholly agree. Even that one thing is just a matter of "good idea maybe, but I'd have to think about more"
>If you don't have friends, I do wonder if it's better to have some kind of group-forming tool so the people working in the same area are able to gravitate to each other. I've thought about that too but if someone isn't willing to find people or make friends in an MMO, why bother playing one in the first place? You could say they're looking for a single-player MMO experience, and while that sounds a little contradictory there have been a lot of games released since WoW's inception that fit that description. On paper an idea like a group finder is a great concept but in reality and from my experience playing MMOs, people join up only for the thing they queued for. In practice, people almost always choose the easier, automated system of doing things, which is why I think it'd be best (and way more conducive to social interaction) to remove it.
>>317832 Every class not being able to do every role effectively isn't really a tax when almost every hybrid is hands down the most overpowered shit in the game. Paladin is completely fucking broken in both PvE and PvP while being brain dead easy to play. The "tax" is that you can't tank or DPS, but the trade off is being a PvP god and literally unfucking stoppable if you have a warrior with you. Shaman is technically more broken but requires a lot more skill to play. Druid is also a retarded broken PvP class. These classes are only "taxed" in the sense that they aren't perfect at every role in the game, which the other classes aren't either since they aren't hybrids with access to every role in the game. Most classes have useless specs or specs that only have niche use cases, people just get butthurt about hybrid classes because instead of it being a throwaway PvP spec or shitty useless DPS spec it's a healing or tanking spec. The funny thing about vanilla WoW's class balance is that it's probably the only expansion where you bring every class to the raid so consistently, but that's mostly because of the raid size. Meanwhile the very next expansion warriors and rogues become completely useless and your entire roster is shaman, lock, and hunter. In vanilla at least you actually need a handful of each class, in TBC you can outright completely ignore the existence of some of them. Even paladins you can just stick outside the raid to buff people then they're useless to bring inside. People praise TBC as a more balanced version of the game but it's the complete opposite if you know what a good roster looks like and how to abuse the game. If people think vanilla has hardcore tryhard autism just wait until they literally just don't get invited to the raid at all ever for being a melee.
>>318222 My outlook is "am i holding the team back" thats the worst feeling. >especially considered a joke Yes my pain was immeasurable in those days.
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>>314336 >smirk
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>>318056 While >>318143 had plenty of good points though depending on setting and if you had to purchase the game already I would concede some cosmetic shit would beat other possibly micro transactions if you needed to make money I also add that the crafting in general needs a redesign. I don't know why, but Wurm scratched some autism itch I barely knew I had and now I want more. I want something different that isn't click UI, click craft. Crafting should be quality not quantity related, and while I know that you would never see it in the current year+x, Wurm letting you rename things made it all the better. While the closest I've seen to what I'm talking about is Camelot Unchained, I haven't touched the crafting system and the game isn't finished so I have no room to say whether or not it is any good. I can only hope they stick with their original goal and don't swap it out for something way more boring because it's easier.
>>318855 Puzzle Pirates was a game that did something unique. Pretty much every piece of equipment, weapons, clothing, even some crafting materials were made by a player from raw materials. The actual crafting was done via different puzzle minigames and the quality of the output was based on their performance. You couldn't actually craft anything without some rich asshole's shop or equipment though, so I wouldn't say it worked well but that's obviously a more complicated issue. >I would concede some cosmetic shit would beat other possibly micro transactions if you needed to make money I would too but in practice that that shit always goes downhill and ruins the game's look. Has there ever been a game that adopted cosmetic purchases and still kept them modest or in line with its design?
When's the new WoW expansion with the raid where you have to avoid getting gangbanged by futa night elves?
>>319014 >He doesn't know Its like you've never met the hordes of erper in wow
>>319014 >have to avoid do you HAVE to avoid it? there's a fail state where it happens right? Not that I'm gonna sandbag or anything.
>>319007 >Has there ever been a game that adopted cosmetic purchases and still kept them modest or in line with its design? I don't think so, although I don't think it would require much more effort than usual. Hell I think dyes micros are scummy, but it would at least be a step before going downhill like you said. I actually loved the Low Rider in Maplestory, but that game kind of got away with more modern cosmetic shit Also I never got too far into Puzzle Pirates sadly, but beyond the being forced to use some other asshole's shop (which I think wouldn't be a bad feature to have if it wasn't a necessity) having minigames for crafting is a great idea, at least when everything else in a minigame
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The SMT Imagine clan unlocked its emblem recently, but Bats is nowhere to be found. And should just give Casval leadership.
>>319031 >I'm sorry, you're being kicked from the guild. This is the twelfth weekend in a row where you intentionally failed the raid just because you love elf cock so much.
>>319508 >Casval Is that a Red comet reference
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>>319670 Maybe
>>320054 he's Hee-ho you're Hee-ho I'M HEE-HO! are there any other Hee-ho's i should know about?! demonee-ho: "HEE HO"
>>319508 >>320054 >unlocked its emblem How? I thought there was only one person still playing. Is it just you?
>>320148 There were a couple others yes but the clan levels up slowly even with just one active player, more players just makes it faster.
>>320054 >>320143 Frost Ace has come to Hee-ho at you
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>>319508 Bats here, I know my absence has been sudden but i'll pass you the leadership since I've stopped playing.
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>>324373 A shame everyone stopped playing really, or moved to the other server, was fun while it lasted.
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I play GW2 about 10-20 hours a week. Too much or too little? What do you MMOfags think? I'm full AoE debuff/curse asshole.
>>324493 I'll get back on it and play it seriously again eventually, I just haven't been in the mood for it. I've trying to get some games out of my backlog completed. The SMT: Imagine thread isn't on the catalog anymore so you can make a new one if you want and see if you can get some new anons to join. Maybe even some of the old clan mates will show up and play again.
>>324373 >>324493 is it fully translated yet?
>>324646 Not yet but they are still translating, last patch translated a lot of stuff.
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>>324493 >tfw still playing ReImagine >tfw grinding my ass off in dungeons so I can draw all the cards from the new Fortune Card decks for a shitload of Epitaphs and Secret Room entry programs Feels good man.
I honestly think I'll give PSO2 NGS another two or three years before I try it again. You max out one class, do like four more quests and there's nothing else to do, on top the gameplay being very streamlined. Plus trying to play an action game through some bootleg Japanese college VPN isn't a very enjoyable experience, and global is not an option, because I'm not gonna give up my cosmetics and shit from 400 hours of regular PSO2 because SEGA can't understand why people don't want to play a censored game with inflated as fuck market prices, and players who were genuinely too retarded to solve a single hiragana captcha in eight years.
>ctrl+f LOTRO >cry Nobody ever talks about lotro, nobody ever makes threads about lotro
>>373003 We played it this year when we did the MMO train. I personally got bored with it and I'm not sure what the other anons who stayed around on it for a couple of days thought about it. I do remember the first day we played it like half the anons who got on the first day never got on afterwards.
>>373003 >>373149 It would have been better last summer when all the quest packs at the time for being given away permanently for free.
>>373239 Yea I don't doubt that. I already didn't like having to grind points just to expand my inventory space but if I played during the time where all the quest packs were permanently free I probably wouldn't mind a little grind. Maybe if the developers offered that again then I'll definitely come back and stick around longer. Looking at that image though and there's still some games I want to continue the MMO train with. I've been interested in Perfect World, Mabinogi, and RF Online.
Answer is probably in the pudding but I can no longer access my PSO2 JP account & I'm guessing ever since NGS got released, SEGA has IP-locked the JP servers so they can send all the PSO2 oversea players to Global. It's been a fun 5 years playing on & off but fuck does the game burn you out with the grind & age showing for an already 9 year old game.
>>373314 >I'm guessing ever since NGS got released, SEGA has IP-locked the JP servers so they can send all the PSO2 oversea players to Global I created a brand new JP account no more than a month ago. I have heard rumors for a long time that they'll be IP locking the server but unless it's happened in the last few weeks it hasn't happened yet.
>>315279 TurtleWoW gave Paladins the "Holy Strike" ability, non-exclusive, which helps retribution and protection paladins.
>>317862 The only sandbox MMO I ever had fun with was Star Wars Galaxies. I remember when WoW came out, people left in droves.. then a few months later came back, because they had rushed all the content and realized there's nothing left to do afterwards except show off their gear in their faction's capital city or go do battlegrounds til you want to kill yourself. I wish a MMO would come out that was like Star Wars Galaxies but with a better combat system.
>>373332 Sega still allows you to make a JP account, download the JP version of the game, and even keep it fully updated without a VPN, but if you try to log in without a Japanese IP address, all ships will say they're in maintenance at all times. It's one of the softer region locks I've seen (maybe a full lockdown with stuff like foreigners not even able to download the JP version would have caused issues with the global version), but it's definitely there, and it's been this way since NGS launched.
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Amazon's new MMO is gonna kill FF and WOW.
>>373473 The only thing New World is killing right now is GPUs.
>>373473 >easy anti-cheat nah
>>324493 Yeah I felt it to be a bit too dated and archaic for me, I could hardly ever get in the mood for the game. I was Bomboclaat. Meanwhile since then I got the True Demon ending in Nocturne at level 84 (took 55 hours) and am currently more than halfway through fucking SM1 yeah i'm kind of a hypocrite. In the amount of time I played these games I could have probably been end game in imagine, especially due to how fast the leveling is. Guess I couldn't catch up with years of content updates, dozens of wiki articles, hundreds maybe thousands of items with japanese descriptions, and grinding CP every few days for basically necessary items in order to get a proper grasp on the game.
>>373473 Not even gonna bother with it I already have Dragons Dogma, it plays way better than that GPU killing trash anyways.
>all this GPU killing stuff Nothing should be able to kill your GPU on the software side. It should be able to run at full blast without anything going wrong. People shouldn't blame the game for that unless it's overclocking the hardware or something. I heard it had to do with Nvidia 30 series cards. In that case, it's Nvidia's fault.
>>373556 You can blame them both. Amazon has the budget to test every card in existence before releasing this to the public, and EVGA are retarded niggers that released broken hardware. It is the fault of EVGA, but there is also no excuse for a company like Amazon to not have caught this early on.
>>373561 Apparently it only happens to an extreme minority of people and I'd bet the people it happens to have rare hardware defects or they put their computer in their closet or somehow have something else wrong with their environment that artificially fucks up the card. If the game makes it do that, it just means the game got there first and it's 100% not the software's fault for revealing that imo. You pay to use your card. Especially when you get something like a 3090, you pay to use 100% of your card.
>>373568 An extreme minority of people own EVGA 3090's. I'd be willing to bet they just didn't test that specific vendor version of the card at all.
>>373595 Maybe. I'd imagine they'd have an inclination to because it's the highest end video card, Nvidia is the most popular GPU brand, and EVGA is the most popular or at least most well regarded brand that puts out aftermarket Nvidia cards. Seems like an obvious choice but maybe they didn't bother.
>>373556 >Nothing should be able to kill your GPU on the software side. Shut the fuck up Jeff I'm not playing your shitty game whether it breaks my GPU or not.
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>multiboxing in LOTRO >carrying your elf twink with your human male chad this is the peak MMO experience
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Anyone in the mood to play anything? FlyFF has a pretty popular private server and I've heard good things about the game.
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>>373473 I've been playing the beta and I can assure you and everyone else that's definitely not the case. The game is currently an abomination between being a PvP game and a PvE MMO grindan gaem. The combat got dumbed down; now dps racing your opponent to death with a hatchet in the beefiest armor is the meta. PvP is just dogshit now. The PvE is also braindead. You just hit mob till it dies. Mobs attack very infrequently, most attacks don't even interrupt you, and the damage is low to the point that the passive regeneration from food between fights outdoes it. Unless they either make half decent PvE content or decide to bring back meaningful PvP, this game definitely wont last. The cash shop selling rainbow tigers doesn't help either. For an example of riveting PvP combat refer to webm. I kited this fucker around for 4 and a half minutes trying to get damage in; only for it to repeatedly get healed back by the hatchet berserk. He outstats me completely so trading is no option, and the hatchet berserk also makes him immune to knockdown that 2 of my abilities do.
>>374745 >tfw no low level Lalafell (M) eager to join your private guild
Which server do anons play on for LOTRO? I'm just testing it out and don't actually expect to play with other people but figure it's better to pick the correct server just in case of potential future playings.
anyone trying out bless unleashed? its like the 6th or 7th time they release this piece of shit and they finally managed to make a somewhat stable experience with lots of content
>>391435 I own the old halfchan kinship that was made on Brandywine long before the exodus, mostly hop on to make sure the house is paid for, or if I get the itch to play again.
>>391613 Is that also where anons played a few months back when they were trying out random MMO's?
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>>373003 >>373239 A major issue with LotRO is that most of /v/ is terminally poor, and those with money exclusively spend it on terrible jap garbage or donating to vtubers for parasocial friendship. LotRO is a chief example of why /v/'s love of F2P is misplaced, paradoxically it's not liked despite exemplifying F2P games with the ability to use time in lieu of money for in-game purchases. When the game was a sub to play game, /v/ bitched about $15 a month and a box fee but now it costs way the fuck more to reach endgame unless you sink hella time and anons won't play it now either because of a combination of that and debilitating illiteracy. The free quest pack thing was a great help but I doubt they're going to ever do that again, it was for the chink pox initial clusterfuck. >>391631 No, we were on Landroval.
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>>391632 >we were on Landroval FAGGOT THAT KINSHIP IN THE SCREENSHOT IS ON BRANDYWINE!
>>391639 Oh right we were, I had to check, I thought Landy. My main server is Landy and it's been like a year. Landy is better, for the record.
>>391632 >LotRO is a chief example of why /v/'s love of F2P is misplaced, paradoxically it's not liked despite exemplifying F2P games with the ability to use time in lieu of money for in-game purchases. When the game was a sub to play game, /v/ bitched about $15 a month and a box fee but now it costs way the fuck more to reach endgame unless you sink hella time and anons won't play it now either because of a combination of that and debilitating illiteracy. Despising a subscription isn't about the cost of a game, it's about ownership over a game. Ridiculous pricing schemes are ridiculous regardless of which form they take. A $15 sub cost was never and has never been justified in any MMO ever, not one. And now basically every MMO that still has a subscription cost does all the same shit F2P MMO's do anyways. Games that are priced poorly are games that are priced poorly. I have yet to play LOTRO so I don't really understand the pay models or how the content works at all. But what I do know is that subscription fees are never acceptable payment models. If I buy software I want to own my software. I want to be able to play my games whenever I feel like playing them without this lingering anxiety over whether or not I made use of my game time that on any given month. >>391639 So brandywine is definitely the correct choice?
>>391632 It wasn't even about paying money or the drawbacks of F2P for me. The game just didn't interest me and I was getting bored of it like a day after playing it. Maybe if I paid money and unlocked the raids then it would've been fun, because I genuinely like to raid in large groups in MMOs. However a lot of other anons probably wouldn't have dropped their own money on the game and I personally just want to play MMOs with other /v/ anons.
>>391654 It's about the cost of a game, being touted like it was about principles. If you weren't poor as dirt you'd just pay the $15 and not give a shit because it was nothing. LotRO was fucking great back when it was sub only, you missed out. Imagine being a neurotic fuck trying to get his max money's worth out of $15. >>391665 That's more valid, it's got a style of gameplay to it these days that I can't say has nearly as much mass appeal. The raiding is kind of tacked on, most of the gameplay is PvE grinding of some kind or another, lots of gimmicky things. Early on it was more raid focused and the raids worked better than they do now, relative to the character balance. Now it's kind of a clusterfuck, but the world is still Tolkien and very good, which I think is its strongest attribute that has endured past all of the gameplay bullshit. I still will always love it because of how good SoA and Moria were if nothing else, but it was sub only then, so the community was less full of dirt poor subhumans and the game had enough funding to have high quality server response times which allowed for tighter and better polished gameplay that appealed to the higher quality playbase, and was necessary for the emphasis on actual gameplay it had. Now they have F2P and make more money selling tiny things to a large mass of people than they do polishing the game, because sub models produced better quality MMOs and it's a historical reality only the most autistic newfag would ignore.
>>391671 >If you weren't poor as dirt you'd just pay the $15 and not give a shit because it was nothing. I just explained why one would take issue with a subscription regardless of ones financial situation. The fact you've chosen to completely ignore my argument means they you're the one who is locked into some bizarre line of thinking. I could be a billionaire and still not want to have to be concerned about whether or not I've paid my good goyim tax to access software that I should own.
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>>391654 Brandy and Landy are both very popular servers, not sure if there's a kinship in Landy but there is one in Brandy. >>391665 LotRO is an old game, the combat is dated and takes time to get into, yes it gets very boring especially solo, group play is marginally more fun. I used to just run around alone going through the story because half the enjoyment is being immersed in the setting, lots of stuff to read and take part in like you are part of it.
>>391672 I don't believe you are somehow not dirt poor while being morally outraged over being asked to pay $15 to support a game that's externally hosted and has relevant fees + dev costs to be paid for continual support and such. You could never be a billionaire, if you're a thousandaire you probably get a fat tardbux check in the mail at best. No one with money cares about $15 a month, it's fucking nothing.
>>391691 >I don't believe I don't care what you believe. You not believing the sincerity of my position isn't an argument against the position. >that's externally hosted Left 4 Dead is "externally hosted" and yet I don't have to pay a subscription to play that game online. Funny how that works. >dev costs to be paid for continual support and such Those used to be called DLC's or expansions. >No one with money cares about $15 a month, it's fucking nothing. Like I said, whether or not you believe I can afford $15 a month isn't an argument. You consider a game superior for simply having a subscription fee because of a correlation between the quality of how much you're spending on it and the quality of your experience. While I could just as easily write this off as nostalgia as you have written me off as a poorfag, I won't because I don't know much about this game. But what I can do is dismiss the notion by simply pointing to any of thousands of AAA games that now cost more while producing worse products. A correlation between something costing more and being better is not causation. The fact that you simply believe being a pay piggy to corporations means you're getting a superior product doesn't actually mean it maps onto reality. LOTRO could very well have been an infinitely better product when it was a subscription based game, and that would still have absolutely zero bearing on the validity or superiority of subscriptions as a payment model. Your entire position is the same nonsensical shit that consumerist drones use to justify buying $4,000 apple computers that ship with mechanical hard drives. Kill yourself retarded pay piggy.
>>391702 >I don't care what you believe >Types up a wall of text at me I was there, you were probably in your absent nigger father's nutsack at the time, that's 2007 for you. Stop being poor, it's repulsive.
>>391720 Did you forget to include an argument pay piggy?
>>391721 Peasants shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.
>>391737 just use your 8chan gold pass to filter them all out
>>391742 I skipped 8chan gold and got Ronin™ but I can't find the option.
So instead of arguing what MMOs are you guys actually playing right now?
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>infinity >zero matches bang
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>>392197 Glad some of us are still present.
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>>392202 Shit that's the wrong screenshot.
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>>392197 ITC is the official 8chan guild, thank.
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>>392225 I sometimes miss how we managed to piss people off by existing, to the point of them launching self-destructive crusades that cause them to become infamous for butthurt across entire servers.
>>392225 >implying
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>>392238 Lamenting. Here's to you lads; wherever you may shitpost and spread your degeneracy these days.
>>392242 DOST act makes posting this image illegal (children a sexual situation)
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>>392249 >children a sexual situation Thanks for cheering me up. Truly, a retard of your caliber is something else.
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>>392249 Dost is a name, not an acronym. It's not an act, it's a test that came up because of some case the Dost guy was involved in. The Dost test would find that image to be perfectly fine, the "sexual situation" stuff you're talking about is an entirely separate thing that wouldn't apply here.
>>392249 I AM DOST
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>>392229 >>392197 I never did hit 70.
>>392456 I didn't make it either, the guild died from that Kara run and the will to keep playing vanished.
>>310777 Any anons still play Ragnarok Online? Namely OriginsRO? Mainly started playing there because it seemed like the best server without shit like super high rates or donate shops (even v4p annoyed the fuck out of me) and it looks like it has a good population on top of it. Got into the game itself though because I never got to play it during it's heyday or it's revival when anons apparently used to play RO to death, and I got blueballed from being dragged into RO serb runs at the tail end of the former and then everyone dropping out before we can do most of the end game stuff. >>310791 I thought Black Desert looked cool but I kept reading about how it was full of p2w, bots, etc. I actually played it a bit during a free period. I can't remember much but I didn't come back to it before the period was over for some reason. I don't think I disliked it though. Sucked that you couldn't be a mage without being a woman, but it seems like one of those games where everyone makes a waifu anyway
>>392514 I really want to get into Ragnarok Online because I've never actually played it before. I heard on old 8chan long ago /v/ actually played it together and had their own clan. Shit I'm back in the mood to just play some random MMOs.
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>>392456 >>392474 I played WoW on and off for years and never even hit 60. I'd reach about 30-40 before getting bored and deciding to play a different class. Repeat ad infinitum.
>>392529 There was a WoW TBC private server I've seen an anon mention in these threads that's insta 70 on the server. Though the raids are all 5-mans. I played a few old vanilla WoW private servers and the only fun thing about levelling was the world PVP and going around ganking alliance fags. I'd always quit mid-level and then anons would just find a different private server and do the exact same thing either way. I've never even raided in WoW.
>>392547 WoW is shit and needs to be put to rest.
>>392474 That and the release of Classic, which made a pretty decent dent in private server populations. I'm still ambivalent about what's happening to Blizz right now because it means WoW might fall into the hands of a different company, which could either be very good or very very bad. >>392529 >>392547 Leveling and world-based stuff is the fun part of it for me. Endgame content always posed more of a chore than a challenge and outside of learning new content I don't really understand how some players get obsessed over it.
>>392555 There is no fate for WoW worse than being in Blizzard's hands at the moment, I refuse to believe it. At worst it'd be a sidegrade into a different shit company. I don't even like WoW these days for the record. Classic was a fun time for a while back near its launch, haven't bothered with BC classic and I just don't care much for it vs. vanilla nostalgia. But even vanilla WoW is a deeply flawed and heavily casualized Everquest clone.
>>392644 The least shit thing about WoW is how it "casualized" the shit-show that is Everquest. WoW is shit but the autistic retards that think artificial "difficulty" in old MMORPG's is something worthy of praise are fucking retarded. Your game being insufferably tedious is not good game design.
>>392647 Note how I said deeply flawed and heavily casualized separately, because the casualization isn't necessarily a flaw, it's just a different style of MMO and different amount of weight put on grinding. I like a lot of approaches for different reasons. Most of vanilla WoW's flaws are elsewhere though.
>>392651 It's a very awkward way of phrasing something. To call a direct improvement to a game "casualization" because it happens to make it more approachable to anyone that wants to actually play a game sounds retarded. In most cases calling something a casualization implies needless and harmful changes.
>>392647 Ever Quest was clunky, ugly garbage and WoW was vastly superior in every way. Far too different in interface and gameplay to ever be called a clone. FFXI was more of a clone of EQ, and that played nothing like WoW.
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>>392659 >harmful changes no, casualization literally means what it says. it makes the game casual and easy to approach, which is almost always bad. you need to do gatekeeping somehow or you allow all the retards and secondaries to hop in and corrode your thing to death, as they will always be the majority.
>>392659 >a direct improvement Debatable. >In most cases calling something a casualization implies needless and harmful changes. No, in most cases that might be how you read it, but nothing about "casualization" implies needless or harmful changes. My post didn't, especially. Read the post instead of whining about the phrasing, I'll phrase it however I please.
>>392666 >Debatable It definitely isn't. Everquest is fucking terrible and anyone that pretends otherwise either hasn't played it or is pretending to be retarded. >My post didn't, especially. Read the post instead of whining about the phrasing, I'll phrase it however I please. If you're comfortable being misinterpreted by using ineffective language then so be it. But I think you'll find navigating basic conversation kind of cumbersome if you call every objective improvement to a games design a "casualization" because people like it and want to engage with it more as a result.
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still the best
>>392667 >It definitely isn't. It is, I debate it. What are you going to do about it? Not a god damn thing. >by using ineffective language This guy understood me >>392664 It's your problem that you read things into posts that aren't there. I don't plan to change my posting style to accommodate you.
>>392678 >I don't plan to change my posting style to accommodate you. I don't care.
>>392681 Well you were already putting my post through your retard-brain filter prior.
>>392681 There's a reason TOR tags are black.
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I started up Ragnarok Online. I like the music and looks of the game so I might stick around on it for a while. Gonna pick the Merchant job.
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Play LOTRO loser. Tolkien invented all of this shit.
>>394227 Is there a retards guide to the classes/specs and their meta and balance? Seems like things have been rebalanced over the years so a lot of the online commentary is all over the place. What class do I play to smash big two handed sword at orcs?
>>394242 > What class do I play to smash big two handed sword at orcs? Captain. Champs use two 1handers these days. You can level with whatever though. Cappy is support, champs a dps, both are a guaranteed invite for group content
>>394242 There are three classes that can use 2h swords, Captain, Guardian, and Champion. Any class that can use 2h clubs however can cosmetically make them look like 2h swords if you have a sword in your bank wardrobe you want to use. Beornings, Guardians, and Captains can use 2h clubs. 2h Guardian isn't really that good and locks you out of shield skills.
>>394256 >support As I suspected, a bit of a lame thematic to achieve the two hander aesthetic.
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>>394264 not my problem, check out this cool sword (1handed)
>>394268 Looks more like a dildo than a sword.
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>>394264 Captain support isn't the same as healslut support.
>>394273 To re-iterate Captains are more of a jack of all trades class, has the ability to do a bit of anything but are often in demand for tanking, or their huge party buffs and AoE heals.
>>394281 By the way, have you heard about the LI revamp? A bit worried about the crystals I had for years in my bank becoming useless soon after I started playing again. Knowing Relic/ssg I might aswell buy a fuckton of lube now
>>394285 We don't really know anything they have planned at this point.
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>>394285 Buy it all again goy, so we can revamp it again, and then you can buy it yet again. Don't be antisemitic.
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>>394326 Ah I see you are a man of culture as well.
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>>394355 shalom
Any other anons in here among the ones that played Phantasy Star Universe? That event the private server developers made back in May was pretty fun. I've been logging on to it casually over time but the only thing I've done is grind in Dark Falz to level up more and hopefully get some rare drops. If the developers say when another event is gonna happen I'll be on more for sure.
>>392521 I would have just made a thread to see what kind of players (likely like you and I) I could scrounge up, but I don't even have a guild. I doubt that I could make one either since I remember something about needing some special item and probably lots of zeny. A more veteran player would do better with all of that kind of stuff too since I've never made one or managed it as the guild master. >>393352 Sorry anon, I've been feeling like shit lately. If that's your ingame name, I'll be sure to look you up whenever I get back into it. In the mean while, feel free to post any gripes about the server you may have. I don't want anons to waste their time getting into a server and then they all think it's shit and waste everyone else's time that wants to keep playing too.
>>395312 There's nothing wrong with the server from what I've seen. Even right now at this hour there's nearly 500 players online. I would guess at peak hours it hits around 1000 which is good for a private server. The only thing to make sure you need to do before playing is patch the game on the launcher and also select borderless fullscreen mode. I'm just gonna play it casually and follow a wiki for levelling spots.
>>394375 actually based
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>>395562 Thanks. I was quite happy with how he turned out. I would also note I made his crafting profession Tinker so he has Jeweler and such and has the title Grand Master Jew(eler) which I used until I got Miser from the Christmas event. In addition I have plausible deniability that he is a jew joke because he's a beornling and can shapeshift into a bear, so Berenstein becomes a Berenstain Bears nod and mandella effect reference. Like all kikes, he must be able to both shapeshift and hide behind a flimsy false identity whenever assailed by questions or criticism. /rich
I’m sorry for this terrible post but I am an infinity Chan refugee that’s been stuck on 4cuck since infinity went down. Is this place where most people went? I can’t seem the find the old gang anymore and 4chan is not worth visiting anymore. I need some outlet for my imageboard fixation. This site is run by the cake kike right?
>>395859 Yes, and no just this board.
>>395859 Please stop by >>>/c/ as well.
>>395859 Here's the tl;dr >jim takes 8chan down because cuckflare got butthurt >everyone mulls around for 8 months on alternative imageboards >jim brings back 8chan under the name 8kun, mark migrates his board there >site is a complete fucking mess and borderline unusable, also proprietary spyware >half the alternative imageboard communities refuse to migrate alongside mark >eventually mark realizes jim has banned loli from the site and this made him really mad >mark decides to enlist the support of his friend acidman to run a new 8chan >mark while technically gave financial support at the start isn't actually in charge of the site in any meaningful way and isn't even a global volunteer So yes, this is where the lingering few anons have ended up. Though there's also the webring sites and boards where places like /a/ and other /v/ anons hang out. But this is the most centralized and populated, though smuglo.li gets quite a bit of activity too for being the /a/ site. Zzzchan.xyz is the other "main" site.
>>395862 Interesting. Well at least the posts here seem to be written by humans. Seems comfy. I recently was in a naxx clearing guild before wow classic. It was on Northdale if anyone remembers it. That was the best wow experience I’ve had since actual TBC. They took all the best parts of the classic experience and improved it somewhat. No spell batching bullshit, dynamic respawns etc. I tried to play classic but was just so dismayed. It reminds me of 4chan actually. The people I met in the open world were all bots. No one spoke in world chat or seemed to be having any fun, as if they were just chasing the dragon of fun that their favorite streamer told them awaited them in classic.
>>395864 Thank you for spoon feeding. I was the anon who ran /TRS/ and banished the TRSodomites and ran /Polk/ for a while. I remember buying an ad to fuck with imkikey. God it feels like I’ve been out in the wilderness too long.
>>312347 >sample
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>>395867 Please be aware that there is a slight /ggrevolt/ infestation, they are still butthurt after all these years.
>>395874 Are these the “not your shield” homos?
>>395875 No they are the homos that thought if they promoted e-celebs, and obsessed about e-celebs, they could become e-celebs. They are those /cow/ internet bloodsports fags, and they had their own board provided to them by /leftypol/. They were the ones that would always spam that picture of "Mark's" butthole.
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Playing a chink auto-quest monster taming MMO just for the hell of it
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>>395992 >Chinese MMO
>>395997 Actually it could be Korean I'm not even sure
>>395999 Does it have a horrible gear upgrading system that includes buying special store items for the gear upgrade to not result in gear destruction or downgrading?
>>396009 I don't know I wasn't really paying attention to anything. It's all automated. Like you click on a quest and it'll take you to the location. It's no doubt P2W but I'm just playing it because I'm bored.
Also tried out Granado Espada a couple of months ago when I was bored. This game actually has good music.
>>396023 yeah, music is amazing, but back in the day couldn't get beyond Torsche's mansion cause of how grindy it was.
>>395864 wow. That is quite the revisionism but sure.
>>395867 What actually happened to TRS? I mostly heard negative stuff from gg and board drama is not something i wanted to dig in. Actually that's for a number of former boards and things.
Lol, they removed the /spit emote from TBC classic because of too much spitting on people who bought the store mounts.
>>396212 Feel free to point out where I revised history instead of just summarizing it you fucking retard.
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What's the most time you guys have spent on a private server?
>>396577 over 100 hours on old rsps
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>>396577 a lot
>>396616 Do anons still get on FFXI? I'm tempted to either try playing that or play Lineage 2.
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>>396577 A lot.
>>396620 Damn looks like you surpassed my level. I should really take advantage of finding high level missions with other players. For some reason everyone's been doing missions in Pavilion of Air rather than Falz Memoria.
>>396620 >few hundred hours >a lot
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>>396650 I can't find anything to show hours in IMAGINE but it is probably a lot longer.
>>396665 how about you play a real sheen megoomi ten say you fucking casval
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>>396724 I have been playing Nocturne this whole time. I struggled more against Specter than Matador because I didn't kill its separate parts fast enough, Matador is piss easy with Dark Might Uzume, Tarukaja, and debuffs.
>>392672 Fuck I miss this game but just don't have the time to invest in private servers and official servers are barely the same game. FFXIV is fun though.
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>>396772 i got kinda done with it after the eden run. kinda sick and tired of every server that comes out having a bible-worth of rules and walls of cuckery that you have to go through to get some tech support. one day im gonna make my own wotg, 1x serb with blackjack and tarutaru hookers and invite anons from around the block.
>>396772 SE should stop being kikes and just give players who are subbed to FFXIV play FFXI with no extra charge. Even fucking Blizzard lets you play Classic WoW if you're subbed to retail WoW. >>396810 I've been wanting to try the Nasomi private server since it goes up to Chains of Promathia in content, and I'm pretty sure it has a bigger population than Eden.
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>>396820 your post made me curious so i actually went and checked, looks like Nasomi is actually losing numbers really bad since the last time i checked (it used to be above 1k) nasomi is the first pic, eden is the second, wings is the third
>>396853 Damn wonder why that is. I didn't even know about Wings though. It even goes up to the Wings of the Goddess expansion so it'd be better to play that over Nasomi.
>>396892 yeah. eden goes to TOAU, wings goes up to wings, obviously so. you got alternative servers too with higher Exp rates, custom content, etc. like ffera or Jova or gold saucer, but these are usually in the 2 digits population. pick your poison i guess
>>396895 Yeah apparently the reason Nasomi is dying according to a jewtube comment is that there's hackers and cheaters that are duping items and shit. I don't mind higher EXP rates but I do value player population in private servers. I also thought Eden just went up to the first expansion but I guess not. Anyways if I were to start a server now I'd probably pick Wings, even if it has about 100 players less of Eden.
>>396900 >people are hacking and duping shit lmao, i knew from a long time ago that the mods didnt really gave a shit about players that weren't part of their "internal" cliqué, but didnt think they'd abandon their server that bad.
>>396853 Wings actually has a higher population than Eden now since they don't allow dualboxing. Pretty nice server haven't kept up with the private server autism since it launched but apparently there were claims of the same kind of shit that killed Nasomi being allowed to happen on Eden at endgame. The private server drama never ends.
>>397558 highly likely, i didnt take into account that most people have an alt in the city just selling items on bazaar, so most likely you are correct and wings has more players
>>395864 Its raining bros
>hit level 5 on brandywine, enjoying comfy MMO leveling >glance at the chat >it's filled with nothing but slav moonrunes
>>422412 Welcome to Brandywine, we have a lot of Russians.
Question about LotRO, does exp efficiency matter at all? Meaning should I be grinding mobs between objectives as much as possible or just doing strictly quests while ignoring random mobs?
>>423475 You get a ton from general questing really, combined with the mobs involved you often out-level content within the region or other regions that are of similar level to your current one, though it can be fun to just take it easy.
>>423482 Forgot to mention you can literally just stand around a starting area leveling farming just as quickly as going out to fight and quest.
>>423475 You won't run out of quests if you never kill anything in LotRO tbh, it's fucking stuffed with content the whole way up to the point most people that like to do all the quests and stuff use Stone of the Tortoise to level cap themselves at will to avoid outleveling everything.
>>423486 If you have the quest packs for the zones or are VIP I mean, might need to grind deeds for LP to buy them otherwise. I was a lifer when F2P launched so I don't know how that whole scene works.
>>425909 >Spanish-African dialect Hey, not everyone here is a burger. What about all the west Europe anons who’ll be speaking Arabic?
>>425909 >free shit Thanks for the heads up, might not play the game any time soon, but might as well scoop it up.
>>425909 That link says the expansions are 99 points, not free. I wonder if you can get enough points as F2P to afford them all. I should probably just buy a month anyways to get my account premium but then I would feel obligated to play and I'm not really in the mood.
>>425909 Why are slavs always so butthurt?
>>425938 You can get 100 very fucking easily halfway through the starting zone.
>>425943 I'm level 14 and I have around 30 points. But I heard you can make new characters and grind deeds then delete them to farm points efficiently. Sounds kind of autistic though so I'll probably just see where I'm at near the end of November and decide what to do then.
>>425945 You should go around and do deeds honestly, kill shit, find shit, explore.
>>425949 I'm just playing it like any old RPG, reading quests, doing some professions. Doesn't look like I need to care about the expansion quests until level 50+.
>>425939 It's in the name. Origin of the world slave comes from slav and the centuries of all kids of fucking at the hands of mongols and turkroaches
>>425994 t. Greekfag
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>>425997 Thank God, no. Shittiest cuisine imaginable after Korean and Indian.
>>426009 I thought I had a shot, I took it. I regret nothing. I'm convinced you're a yuropoor though.
>>426010 It doesn't matter who we are. What matters is our plan.
>>426014 W-was getting part of your plan?
Which server are you LOTROniggers playing on anyways?
>>426056 Brandywine is where I was told to play so Brandywine is where I'm playing.
>>426060 Alright, I speak non-serbrune slavic, so I should be able to survive.
>>426056 Brandy is mostly English speaking but of course there are various Russians because LotR is big there.
>>311997 you would like the game to continue to be developed right? it's either a sub or horrific cash shop. pick your poison. it's also typically third worlders who hate subs.
>>426142 >you would like the game to continue to be developed right? There is nothing about MMO development that should be different than any other games development. Why would I need to pay a monthly service fee for the game to be developed when it should be feature complete from day 1? If they release expansion content then I can just buy the expansions. Do you think Dark Souls should have a subscription fee? Why are you pushing this false dichotomy of sub vs cash shop on a specific genre of game that we would never apply to any other kind of game?
This 5 quest tracking limit is fucking cancer in LOTRO. Didn't even realize there was a limit until I finally checked out my quest log and found quests I had forgotten about 5 levels ago that I never got around to. Also is there an easy method of quest discovery beyond just stumbling across the quests organically in towns? Kind of annoying the able to just outright miss quests if I'm not paying enough attention to the mini-map or whatever.
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>>392662 >Far too different in interface and gameplay to ever be called a clone In lots of places WoW lore is a direct rip-off from Everquest Lore. Here are two small examples. First EQ Raid: Lord Nagafen, who is a giant dragon that formed a plot with Lady Vox to create a prismatic dragon. Second WoW Raid: Lord Nefarian, who is a giant dragon that formed a plot with Lady Onyxia to create a prismatic dragon. The Plane of Mischief: A sprawling mansion complete with a giant chess board, an opera hall, a giant dining room, and twisting corridors where the very fabric of reality is warping in on itself. Karazhan: A sprawling mansion complete with a giant chess board, an opera hall, a giant dining room, and twisting corridors where the very fabric of reality is warping in on itself.
? Is there any new MMO coming out with super mega CUTE loli?
>>426490 I'm wondering if all that was the fault of (((Tigol))), the beast that ruined EQ raiding and moved on to work for WoW on its own raids.
Recently started playing FFXIV to level with some friends. I'm at lvl 34 in the MSQ (for those who don't know, FFXIV has a "Main Story Quest" which is essentially one gigantic quest chain that extends through the entire game that you are required to progress through). So far I'm mildly enjoying myself, though it isn't without flaws. For one thing, the MSQ makes the leveling experience very linear and takes away any sense of exploration or player choice. I earn enough xp from MSQ content and dungeons that I don't even do regular quests. Also, the open world content is very easy which takes away any need to group with other people outside of dungeons. I hate this trend of MMOs to make everything piss easy to cater to solo players. One of the things I really loved about vanilla WoW is that open world pve can be dangerous, and many areas really encourage grouping up for safety even early on. It leads to organic moments of interacting with other players and actually, y'know, feeling like you're in an MMO. On a related note, nobody talks in FFXIV outside of the Novice Network chat. Even city chat is borderline dead.
>>427279 You will basically never do sidequests, except for class quests. They drive me nuts, clogging up the map and mini-map, but you get 5x as much XP from FATEs and dungeons of the appropriate level, so it's just never worth it. I've thought about doing it while leveling up the other classes/jobs, but you're just taking more time to level at that stage. I'm sure some people do it "for the lore", but most of them are fetch quests with little flavor. I think this is a real flaw in the game's design but the developers seem adamant that MSQ is 100% necessary and unskippable but all the other quests be totally pointless fluff. MMOs don't try to be about being massively multiplayer anymore. WoW killed that. There's a lot of inefficiencies and annoyances that come with trying to make that work in a theme park MMO, so FF14 (and modern WoW) just strip it right out and lean into it. The duty finder is an excellent example of that. They turned running dungeons from a big quest where you need to gather a team into a commodity where you may never speak to these people or see them again. Loot, commendations, etc, it's all just a statistic. WoW was a craigslist ad, FF14 is a glory hole, and i just want to meet someone at a bar, you know?
>>427279 I'd want MMO's to either be focused like XIV or completely sandbox like Black Desert. Vanilla WoW is shit because you need guides or addons to do anything efficiently because it rides the line between sandbox and quest driven. Spending an hour running around the entire fucking world getting the quests for each dungeon instead of just happening by a dungeon and forming a group to do it with is fucking cancer. The tedium in that game is unreal. I respect FFXIV for committing to the on rails experience and actually knowing what it wants to be. It might not be what everyone wants, but it doesn't try to be and that's better than catering to multiple audiences like many failed MMO's attempt to do.
>>427316 I remember back on retail just how painful it was to get a party going for almost anything that wasn't Wailing Cavers, Scarlet Monastery Armory, Zul Farrak, Maraudon and finally Sunken Temple. You could spend hours upon hours just shouting and shitposting in /LFG and your run would usually fall apart before it even begun proper. And that was on levels that had other things to do like level and shit. Once you reached and somewhat progressed past ST you were basically shit out of luck unless you had a 60 mate in a good guild that helped you run the final bis and levels grind up to 60. When they added shit like global queues and such it actually made me miss some of the old shenanigans but it sure as hell helped me actually see content other than the few mentioned. And generally in a way that didn't leave me wanting to shoot someone because after two hours of that cock and ball torture some fag had to go eat ten minutes in or decided he's going to muh ninja roll the first green that pops and rip the entire group apart. It also allowed for PUGs to remain viable well into raiding territory as opposed to having to play under some screeching faggot and his DKP homebrew flavor. >>427480 >you need guides or addons The only "mandatory" addons classic WoW had were those that helped in raiding, and even most of those were optional and convenience at best. Guides were and remain a surefire way to suck any fun out of generally any game. Significantly more if the main appeal of the game is actual exploration and the discovery factor. You know what was the most fun I had in classic (the real classic back in the day) retail? The fucking ghost wolf shaman quest that had you run all over the motherfucking world since you feel like high on meth after you complete it and going against muh meta and having a mostly sword combat rogue with two crusader enchants. Yeah, I lost some DPS and initial burst but he was an absolute riot to play as opposed to going strict muh meta preparation dagger 99.9.9% of the fags went at that point.
>>427908 You're describing things that were fun when you were retarded and didn't know any better. The game instantly becomes insufferable once that wanderlust wears off and all the things retards pitch as epic are just tedious bullshit designed to make your sub tick away each month. Vanilla WoW and its leveling are fundamentally terribly designed. Auto-walking across entire continents and having an hour of your afternoon spent virtually AFK is not good, fun, immersive, or engaging gameplay. It's just a way to waste your fucking time. It's the same bullshit for the raids. Nothing about them is hard or complicated. Everything just has tedious bullshit for those moments when 1 of 40 people lags out and wipes the entire raid then you get to spend 15 minutes recovering. Vanilla WoW takes the concept of artificial difficulty to its absolute worst possible conclusion and then it goes even farther beyond that through sheer force of will.
>>427912 >It's just a way to waste your fucking time Well, what should a game do, sing me a fucking song? Help me prepare for a crash course in biologic chemistry or classic literature? Of course it was a time waster and rather fun time waster at times at that. The difference between my recollection and experience with the game and yours, torpedo, is that I tried and generally managed to wring out some fun out of that one with the general notion of play while it's fun and try and git gud while you play while you and I'm taking a shot in the dark here fell for muh competitive meme, reached out for addons, guides and other crap, and generally burned out without stopping to smell the flowers or camp some alliance faggot for several hours at the time.
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>>427912 >It's just a way to waste your fucking time. Congrats! You've finally hit upon the fundamental and ESSENTIAL design philosophy of the entire MMO genre. The more ways to waste your time, the better
>>427921 You're romanticizing shit game design because you happened to enjoy it. There's a reason why you don't actually have a defense for why auto running 45 minutes in a straight line is supposed to be good game design, because it isn't. Just like 40 man raids are terrible game design. Vanilla WoW is a lot of things that are cool in concept and cool when you first encounter them, but rapidly expose themselves as completely fucking retarded after you've actually had proper experience with the game. I can't tell if you're trying to convince me or yourself that literally just not playing the game for 20+ minutes at a time because of retardedly long flight paths is "fun". I feel like I'm listening to someone tell me that movie games are actually amazing and I'm just playing them wrong for expecting a real video game. Stop being so retarded. Bad design is bad design, enjoying or tolerating bad design doesn't make it good design.
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>>427932 I'm neither convincing nor romanticizing anything. If anything I'm still laughing my ass off from the: Vanilla WoW is shit because you need guides to do anything efficiently and oh, it's just a way to waste time. And just so we're clear - you having shit for brains or being too much of a ditz to follow a guide you didn't need in the first place doesn't make for bad design no matter how much you ass is blasted on the subject.
>>427932 DUMBY alert! There is a dumber in the premises MMOs are supposed to be replacement for real life in video game form. Do you enjoy every single second of your life, even the tedium? Commiserating with others about or using these down times to TALK is the actual MMO experience
>>427934 Ending up spending literally hundreds of extra hours doing tedious shit because the organic leveling experience is filled with shit designed to waste your time is the problem with the game I'm highlighting. When you encounter a dungeon organically in the game the first thing anyone is going to ask you when forming a group is if you have the 5-6 accompanying quests which are fucking scattered in random cities on multiple continents. Having to get these quests adds nothing to the experience besides wasting your time. In fact it's not actually even worth getting them at all if you didn't already know they existed. The time spent getting the quests would be better spent just grinding for the same xp/hour result. This is what I mean when I say you "need" a guide to play the game in any way that makes sense. With a leveling guide you can have the appropriate quests picked up for the appropriate levels and zones. You're making it out to be some weird "try hard" shit but it's a matter of saving you literally hours out of your night on flight paths and just not fucking playing the game. I feel like I'm talking to someone who has never even played the game before whenever retards try to pretend like Vanilla WoW's design elements are in any way defensible.
>>427938 >you need a guide to do x >x is akshuly pointless >game is shit because you need guide Yeah, alright. I think I'll go waste my time on something more fun than replying to your crap.
Anyone ever try Dungeons & Dragons Online?
You learn to stop tryharding after reaching endgame in a few or so servers. All those virtual accomplishments don't mean squat after you log off or play another game. Once the dopamine high wears off, you'll realize you spent too much time on grinds you don't even like just to see numbers go up. If you're lucky, you might make friends but even those are take it or leave it. It's just not worth it to have a battered relationship with an MMO when there are always better uses for your time and single player experiences are more relaxing. Anons are a mixed bag, had both good and bad guild experiences with them.
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>>428064 I have avoided it mostly, due to the game containing that insufferable bitch Wil Wheaton.
>>428086 I couldn't agree more. To put things into perspective I don't know how many hours I've put into grinding various pointless shit over the years in oh so many grindy games. war thunder and age of wushu/wulin probably take the cake And what comes to mind is generally silly shit that wasn't generally productive in any way or form. Barricading zone exits in AoConan with a big ass mammoth and demanding toll for passage or performing terrorist attacks to kill off flight masters on nost.
>>427912 I disagree. I've played through vanilla WoW four times now; first back in actual vanilla, then twice on private servers, then Classic. I don't think it's just nostalgia, vanilla is genuinely fun to level through. I like the process of working your way through a zone's quests, the mix of short and long quest chains, then often the big chains are capped off by a dungeon before you move on to the next area. PvP encounters help break up the monotony and give you a reason to group up for safety. It's a good flow, one which FFXIV tries to replicate in the MSQ. Every 5 levels or so, the MSQ takes you to a new dungeon which functions as the climax of that portion of the quest. The issue is the lack of danger and challenge. The requirement in vanilla to actually form a group by talking to people is a huge part of the appeal to me, because it emphasizes communication skills (something completely ignored by other MMOs). You're supposed to make friends during the leveling process, or at the very least get good at attracting attention in the LFG channel. Then again, I always play tank classes so making groups is easy mode. >>427932 >There's a reason why you don't actually have a defense for why auto running 45 minutes in a straight line is supposed to be good game design, because it isn't. I have a defense: travel times are part of the balance of MMOs and it's yet another skill that players need to learn. You can learn to be more efficient with your traveling so that you don't waste your time going on unnecessary detours. Or, you can get a mage friend to shave 20 minutes off your journey with a teleport, or get a warlock friend to summon you. Again, using social skills to your advantage. If you're playing vanilla solo, letting a shitty leveling guide lead you by the nose, you're playing the game wrong.
>>428587 >PvP encounters help break up the monotony and give you a reason to group up for safety. The game is clearly not actually designed around PvP in any way so it's mostly irrelevant. It's just a tacked on sandbox element that can either be fun or absolutely cancerous. Being in a group of 20 people isn't going to make a difference if a level 60 mage shows up and you're level 15. >The requirement in vanilla to actually form a group by talking to people is a huge part of the appeal to me, because it emphasizes communication skills (something completely ignored by other MMOs). Except it's not even remotely a requirement. Most of the time having to depend on the competency of other players can waste literally hours and hours of your time. >go to wailing caverns >spend an hour going through it because some retarded mage keeps wiping the group >mage rolls on the fucking wand you were there to get as a priest >1-2 hours of your life completely wasted The notion that wasting time is epic is immersive is like some retarded stockholm syndrome shit and I'm just going to reject anyone pushing that nonsense. >I have a defense: travel times are part of the balance of MMOs and it's yet another skill that players need to learn. Appealing to the genre isn't actually a defense of a design element. >you don't get it dude the entire point of MMO's is that they're bad which makes them good This shit is just thinly veiled gaslighting. Next you'll tell me Simon's Quest is a good CV game and that I was just enjoying it wrong. >If you're playing vanilla solo, letting a shitty leveling guide lead you by the nose, you're playing the game wrong. If you're playing vanilla solo and following a guide you're going to hit 60 200 hours before the retard that isn't. You're going to be grabbing quests you never knew even existed in an order that actually makes sense. You are arguing about a game being well designed because of extrinsic bullshit that has nothing to do with how it's actually designed. The same bullshit could be applied to any terrible game. >skyrim is actually great if you just spend time immersive yourself in the woods dude, you're not supposed to expect a proper magic system, it's [BETHESDA GENRE], this is how they're meant to be You're retarded.
>>428601 >The game is clearly not actually designed around PvP in any way so it's mostly irrelevant. It's just a tacked on sandbox element that can either be fun or absolutely cancerous. Being in a group of 20 people isn't going to make a difference if a level 60 mage shows up and you're level 15. 20 level 15s could kill a 60 mage. >Except it's not even remotely a requirement. Most of the time having to depend on the competency of other players can waste literally hours and hours of your time. youll have good and bad experiences in anything you do. the vast majority are good.
>>428610 > 20 level 15s could kill a 60 mage. 20 level 15's would die in a single cone of cold. >youll have good and bad experiences in anything you do. the vast majority are good. The problem with Vanilla WoW is that 99% of the bad experiences aren't even necessary. Loot delegation? Actually zero reason for that to even exist. People like to sing praises about it being a social experience yet the game is filled with shit that is invariably anti-social and puts arbitrary useless barriers on your ability to effectively play with other people. Want to do that quest with some random guy? Well it turns out the game fucks your XP and everything you do if with them if you're a specific class will be significantly slower than if you just ignored them and played solo. But I'd love to hear about how picking a warlock and having every single time you group up with someone slowing you down to an insane degree is actually 4D chess brilliant game design to immerse you in this universe. Vanilla WoW is fundamentally shit. Everything people say it does good it actually does terribly. It actively punishes you for playing with other fucking people and the only argument anyone can come up with is "w-well it's an MMO that's how they're supposed to be". No. People should be rewarded for interacting with other players. Grouping up with other people should increase your leveling speed. You shouldn't have to beg the dipshit mage not to roll on a piece of gear he has absolutely zero use for. WoW fucking sucks and you're all retarded for defending it.
>>428601 >Except it's not even remotely a requirement. Most of the time having to depend on the competency of other players can waste literally hours and hours of your time. >go to wailing caverns >spend an hour going through it because some retarded mage keeps wiping the group >mage rolls on the fucking wand you were there to get as a priest >1-2 hours of your life completely wasted Oh my goodness, a bad experience with another player in a massively multiplayer game? Stop the fucking presses! I mean goddamn, what do you expect? Why is it the game's fault that you choose to group with a shitter that took "your" loot? Here's a protip: Don't group with people that need the same loot as you. You're a healer, you have a lot of leverage in the party, you could have made sure that mage wasn't invited in the first place. Or form your own party and pick who you want to bring.
>>428649 None of that is a defense of why that system should exist in the first place. You're just explaining how to mitigate the shit game design. I already know how to mitigate all of WoW's shit game design, I've played the game for 15 years.
>>428610 >20 level 15s could kill a 60 mage. A 100 of them couldn't touch him. Mages especially with their AoE could remove them by the 1000s with that level discrepancy. In late 40s I once found an AFK tier 3 paladin near one of the ports and whaled on him for good 30+ minutes and I didn't cause any remotely serious damage. And that's in good gear, with orc axe precision and him not doing jack shit.
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>>428649 >Don't group with people that need the same loot as you. I mean, yeah, you're entirely right, if you're playing, let's say Mage, the most popular class in the game, never queue with other mages, it's just that simple! Especially where the good shit drops, just make sure there's not a single other mage in the whole raid of 10, 25 or even 40 people back in the day! Oh wait, Mage, Warlock and Shadow Priest, share the same cloth DPS gear in a lot of circumstances. But the healer priest might be needing on it to gear up an offspec, so there go three whole classes you can't ever play with again. Actually, since it's cloth, literally fucking anyone alive can roll need on it, because every class in the game can equip cloth. There's a hunter in the party? Congrats, he's niggering all of your staves as well, because they can use those. Now that the hunter has niggered all of the raid drops, which only drop on a weekly lockout, what the fuck are you gonna do? Report him to the WoWpolice? Block him? Doesn't matter, he's gotten away with a week of your progression, and there's nothing you can do about it. You're so retarded that you've made a TORposter actually have a point for once, congratulations.
>>428737 I quit WoW back in WotLK specifically because the game had become cancerous by the time ICC opened up, and a fucking rogue was given a drop I needed for my Death Knigger.
>>428737 Yeah, because that mage really, really, really needs a piece of cloth that has shadow damage and spirit. Come on.
>>428752 Endgame or even best in slot gear in classic might have slightly less overlap between different classes than later expansions, but it's still significant.
>>428766 It was heavy armor.
>>428777 I'm stupid and I meant to reply to >>428754 on that one nice trips though I remember WOTLK rogues always needing on maces because for whatever reason maces were the best rogue main hand weapons, but most of my terrible experiences were with hunters scooping up any and all melee weapons.
>>428086 The only reason I still play an MMO, specifically FFXIV, is because the story is genuinely good and I like a lot of the trials and raids. I've never really grinded for something at endgame unless I find it easy to do so and not tedious. If anything my end goal in FFXIV is to finally get enough gil for a house. When it comes to other MMOs like the ones I've played with /v/ I just do it for the experience of trying something new with other people.
>>428737 We were specifically talking about the leveling experiencand 5-man dungeons. In 5-mans it's completely possible to build a party with minimal loot competition.
Minecraft would technically be a great MMO, if the playerbase wasn't full of circlejerking e-peens and multiplayer stressed the towny social aspect of the game like it how it was in Alpha rather than the more anti-social PVP focus.
>>428861 It'd really be something if a game that has to constantly keep releasing story-supporting content managed to actually have a good story. A person would assume that it would just keep getting more convoluted as time goes on, unless they start new arcs every few expansions. I never got into FFXIV because the backreferences in the game just feel too contrived to the point where I wouldn't actually be able to enjoy the game because of them.
>>428996 I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a new story arc to FFXIV after Endwalker. The overarching antagonists are pretty much wiped out except one and all we have left is to fight Zenos and possibly Zodiark.
>>429007 But they need another expansion to lvl 100, who are they gonna fight then? Also, how long til the next FF mmo (FF XVII or something like that) ?
>>429014 I actually don't think we'll kill Zodiark, because there has to be balance in the realm between light and dark. So after Endwalker there'll probably still be all the side characters and the WoL will still be the same but we'll just be introduced to new antagonists and maybe a new antagonist faction like the Garleans. The problem is writing something to be eventually be a big buildup. The Ascians were there since the beginning of the game and were always in the background until Shadowbringers. Zenos was there since Stormblood and has become the main antagonist that isn't Zodiark, and Zenos has become insanely strong. They're gonna have to get real creative to write new antagonists that are more formidable than the ones we've already seen.
>>429024 That's the inevitable problem with a series like this. Video game writers aren't any less hacks than TV or comic book writers, and the latter two have much more experience with power escalation and don't have to worry about their characters' players wanting to feel like they're in control of the experience. It's really kind of a tough problem with these long runners. It's certainly possible that Square has all this planned out for years to come, and they probably do have it already hashed out in some vague form. Given FFXIV's weird history, though, and how bad Square is at everything, maybe they don't.
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So Amazon's MMO project New World launched today. The reviews on Steam are quite negative, but most of it is just due to horrible queue times (like, "5000th player in queue" horrible). Anyone here bought it? Is it any good? I must admit the PVP focus and sandbox elements have me intrigued. But, I'm not quite ready to sell my soul to Amazon yet. Also, it uses Easy Anti-Cheat, so I guess you have to sell your computer's soul to Epic Games as well.
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>>429057 From what I hear, the servers each have a limit of 2,000 players which is why the game is just queue simulator at the moment.
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>>429057 I watched someone play it on Twitch for like 20 minutes the other day! It seemed REALLY standard and ultra giga mega turbo galaxy casual just like every MMO now
>>428781 >for whatever reason Hemo preparation spec and slow attack speed so it crits like a motherfucker. That used to be popular in vanilla as well, Grimm the rogue for example and his Rammstein blasting path of blood vid. >Endgame or even best in slot gear in classic might have slightly less overlap between different classes than later expansions, but it's still significant. Other way around. Unless it was weapon and even then it came to weapon per weapon case. All armor tiers above 1 were straight up class exclusive and trinkets might as well be because you're not going to stack attributes you plainly don't need. Tanky shit on rogue, melee crit on warlock or elemental on priest. And as that anon said, your mistake if you run a 5 man and have three other people that are going to roll for the same gear as you ie you have combat rogue, hunter and a shaman and you can't leverage your tank/warrior into getting jackshit. >>428777 Why would rogue get "heavy armor"? Nigger can only wear leather, not mail or plate.
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>>429108 As late as the final patch of WOTLK,, to get tier 10 gear you needed to get raid gear tokens, which would turn into your class specific gear, and three or four classes can roll on any of them.
>>429119 So why didn't he say raid tokens then? That heavy armor comment didn't make sense. It makes it out like someone gave out a piece of plate to a rogue to disenchant or something, doesn't it?
>>429122 I'm talking about gear overlap, I have no clue how he got niggered on some plate armor.
Vanilla WoW was fun originally when I played it as a kid, then it was fun on nostalrius, and fun again on Elysium(even if the GMs were super corrupt there). Most of the bitching in this thread sounds likes its coming from people who played "Classic" aka the reddit/blizzard cancer from a few years ago. What happened on the "Classic" servers was nothing like what it was in original or on the private servers that existed before classic. Vanilla/TBC were peak WoW. Its a shame blizzard fucked up TBC Classic with the paid boosts, no reset of the economies, and not releasing T5 on launch which was how TBC was originally launched back in the day. Gruul/Mag/Kara is not a raid tier. Its UBRS with a lockout, and then two onyxia style encounters.
>>429108 >>429125 It was some "guild hierarchy" shit, in hindsight they were total faggots.
To clarify further, I was stuck fumbling around in mostly PvP gear mainly because my guild was less than helpful, and most of the time they were "too busy" to help me through dungeons so I was stuck with the dungeon finder. The incident with the plate armor was just one of many instances of pecking order fuckery involving high level runs actually with them, I lost an axe to a fucking hunter during a different run.
>>429157 Yeah, well >>427908 I know how that's like
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>>429179 I honestly suspect it was because I was an autistic child back then, so these adults were taking advantage of that fact to screw me over.
>>429072 That's a lower player cap than 90% of WoW private servers have. Good to know modern game developers are still more retarded than a bunch of subhuman slavs working out of dingy basements reverse engineering a 16 year old game. >>429138 "It's fun" is not an argument. I played tons of WoW and had fun doing it. WoW is also a fundamentally horribly designed game. Also my opinion isn't even remotely informed by Blizzards nu-Classic bullshit. They ruined that in a million ways but I'm talking about the much better crafted private servers which were ironically way better than the "real" thing Blizzard shit out.
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>>429581 I had a good time when we all fucked around in TBC awhile back, it's stupid how one bad raid can just kill the whole fucking guild, and even I who cared more about my engineering was demoralized, because I was alone.
>>429591 It's more like one bad raid can make people realize the game feels more like you're fucking wage slaving than playing a video game.
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>>429581 >WoW is also a fundamentally horribly designed game >much better crafted private servers This is just too true. My best experiences with game were on a obscure private czech server where the admin was not afraid to touch up the game places to remove the most tedious parts. Like for example letting people to que up for all battlegrounds instead of one or giving the player access to a console command to teleport to their heartstone location or adding a portal to all the dungeon entrances so that farming emblems was actually somewhat speedy after you got the group together. Playing on a server without all these minor tweaks made me realize just how much time the game wastes by basically running back and forth with bundles of bear assess. Conversely this is also why I have a hard time swallowing servers like Turtle WoW because there despite flaunting their "custom expansion" with two new race, mounts, gear, quest and whatnot they are still unwilling to fix basic oversights that even Blizzard themselves admitted that they were mistakes. Stuff like giving the paladin class a taunt or have his blessings last longer than 5 minutes or refusing to let druids use spears because of... well I have no idea why really no one ever explained beyond "muh lore" or making meeting stones teleport people... Its just obnoxious to see them brag about the new quest and dungeons and "hey mages can now pick locks" but when you ask them for a viable paladin tank or druid dps suddenly its not "vanilla" anymore.
>>429752 >5 minute blessings It took until, if I remember right, it's been a while, motherfucking CATACLYSM to normalize buff durations to 30 or 60 minutes, and make them apply to everyone instead of being single target. Imagine that shit. You have a single target buff ability with a sub 5 second cooldown, that you should more or less have up at all times on your whole party, which is not hugely significant, but still leads to some loss of efficiency if you're ignoring it, but that buff also lasts, depending on class, either 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 minutes. Oh, and if you wipe, you have to re-apply these to everyone. Most raidboss fights at the time take longer than five or sometimes even ten minutes. Hell, a dungeon takes anywhere from 10 to 40 minutes, depending on which circle of CBT you got sent to. There's no cooldown management required to keep buffs up, you're not having a tough dilemma on whether you do your DPS combo or throw out buffs, there's no skill to it whatsoever. It's just a tedious thing you have to do during downtime if you have an ability of that kind. Mentioned wiping, but even that is/was tedious as fuck in WoW. You have to walk your ghost ass to the dungeon door, then you respawn with no fucking health or mana at the start of the dungeon, so everyone has to stop and wait for the casters to sip water for 20 seconds, everyone needs to reapply buffs, then you probably need to walk to the actual boss, then you discuss what went wrong, and then you go again. If people blew really big, important cooldowns during the fight you need to sit there and wait for those to come back, some of which go up to ten minutes. Compared to let's say FFXIV where wiping in any difficult content just fades to black, resets you next to the boss with full resources and cooldowns reset, and just screams FORWARD! at you.
>>429775 All other classes got an improved version of their buffs that lasted longer and applied to an entire group. Only paladins really had to deal with the 5 minute shit but again they could buff entire groups at once. You'd know this if you played the game though.
>>429790 Group wide buffs don't mean much when you're in a raid of 40 people. They take a fuckton of mana, reagents, and you're still sitting there buffing and drinking for ages all the time. Druids get especially fucked since there's usually only 1 per 40 man raid.
>>429793 40 people is 8 groups. As you said druids got fucked but fuck druids so who cares People complain about buffs, but even back then people found ways to be efficient.. In classic all the paladins just had addons to make sure they managed that shit. It's not great, but it's not the big tedious task everyones it out to be.
>>429797 No, it is ABSOLUTELY a big tedious fucking task. I forgot that priests had 2 fucking group buffs they needed to throw out and your retarded posts just brought those repressed memories of buffing as a priest back. That shit is fucking awful and one of the worst parts of raiding in vanilla WoW.
>>429800 8 groups divided by probably just as many priests? Were you the only one buffing? Did you play with morons?
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LMAO. People are getting handed out permanent bans in New World over "code of conduct violations", AKA mildly spicy memes and even just trash talk in chat. No chat bans, no warning system, no three-strikes-you're-out, just one report and your $40 purchase gets bricked. This is supposed to be a pvp game where you slaughter and grief other players, but if you trash talk them it's against the community guidelines. Exactly the sort of wildly overbearing and unnecessary content moderation you'd expect from a company like Amazon. There's hundreds of posts on the Steam forum about this. Stay far away from this game, anons.
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>>429790 10 minute, single target druid thorns, Mark of the Wild lasting 30 minutes but being single target, Warrior's Battle Shout lasting 2 minutes with no cooldown and only a 10 rage cost, Arcane Brilliance being a 1 hour buff but only single target, priest getting a full party one hour buff, and a single target 30 minute buff. Oh, and only paladin really got greater marks, which upped the duration from 5 to 15 minutes. You'd know this, if you actually played the game though. >who cares about druids >just use addons bro
>>429805 8 priests? What kind of comp is that? The optimal healer composition minimizes the number of priests as much as possible as shamans and paladins will always provide more utility in totems and buffs. You'd know this if you played the game though.
>>429808 Thought about checking it out but I won't even bother now. One more game on the ignorelist. It's sad, I love MMOs. PvP MMOs are kinda gay though because MMOs aren't built for that type of competition. It always comes out wrong compared to a real competitive game.
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>>429810 Yeah, because that priest REALLY needs thorns.
>>429808 This is why no one should have ever tolerated centralized game servers and software as a service. MMO's are cancer for normalizing this shit.
>>429810 >and only paladin really got greater marks No? Are you being dumb on purpose? >>429814 That was a joke but most raids did have around 4 or so. It doesn't invalidate my point.
>>429820 At least MMOs had a valid excuse for it. That said, I would be perfectly okay with a custom MMO map maker with prebuilt assets for player-hosted servers.
>>429866 They have zero excuse for it. There is no game with an excuse for the server hosting to be monopolized by the developer. If I buy a game I should own the game and be able to host it on my own server and do whatever the fuck I want. Anything else is you renting access to a license and not owning software.
>>429810 At lvl 40 you learn a group version of the buff called Gift of the Wild, and it lasts for an hour. The only special cost is that the max rank requires a 50-silver reagent to cast. I think other classes like Priest get a similar group version of their buff which costs a reagent, but Paladins are still boned.
>>429808 It's from Amazon, which has enough money. You should stay away from it on general principles. I'd thought this one had already crashed and burned in beta, but I guess it shows what I know.
>>429775 Your argument is the same fucking argument that the "you think you do, but you don't" idiot used, you dumb fucking cunt. You and your ilk are what have been causing the decline of MMOs for past 15 fucking years. Thinking that everything has to be clean, convenient, and easy to understand. It's the reason why we have shit like automated dungeon finders, players who never speak to each other, railroad questing, etc. Kill yourself. And if your dumb ass had actually played WoW, you'd know that party buffs were introduced really early on, and that after that point raid buffing was a minor inconvenience at best. Oh no, I have to use my button 8/X amount of times per wipe. Woe is fucking me. Where X is the number of fucking buffers in your raid. Boohoo. Seriously, kill yourself. Not only do you spout stupid shit, but you're also an ignorant mother fucker. >>429879 It's 10 silver. 9 with discount. Down to 8 in TBC. Even a single Druid buffing an entire raid will spend less gold in a raid than a plate wearer does for repairs.
>>430046 Except he was right. Every person I've met that romanticizes Vanilla WoW barely even played the game. They're all casual retards that think wandering around the barrens is epic and immersive because you spend more time afk auto-walking than you do actually playing the game. None of these people have ever stepped foot into Naxx before, or any fucking raid for that matter. People think they like Vanilla WoW but they actually just fucking hate nu-WoW. They're both horribly designed games, just in different ways. The reality is that there are a fuckton of elements in Vanilla WoW that are invariably shit. >it's supposed to be a bad game that's apart of the epic social experience You sound like the kind of retard that thinks the god awful menu systems in JRPG's are actually brilliant game design that is meant to be shit on purpose or something. It's like I'm witnessing that picture of the guy eating the plate of shit that Blizzard puts out for him in real time, this is insane.
>>430063 I found Molten Core to be more fun than Naxx any day of the week.
>>430063 >my skinner box doesn't reward me fast enough >>430088 Classic launch Molten Core raiding was a lot of fun. The shortage of stats actually made it more than just knowing the mechanics.
>>430088 All 40 man raids are shit anyways. Anything above 10 man raids was a mistake from day 1. >>430090 >my skinner box doesn't reward me fast enough What a weird thing to say. All games are skinner boxes, all discussions about game design are discussions about how enjoyable that skinner box is ranging from the challenges presented, frequency of rewards, quality of rewards, and a number of other factors.
>>430063 >he was right Absolutely not. In a persistent game world, failure needs to have a penalty associated with it. Party buffs are an important part of the fantasy that comes with playing cooperative games: you do better when playing with others. This leads players to feel stronger, and better about playing with others. Which leads to the possibility of more challenging content . Which leads to wanting to overcome said challengers, Which leads to grouping up. Which leads to social interactions. Putting the multiplayer back into MMO. And none of these things are exclusive to WoW. >wandering around the barrens is epic and immersive because you spend more time afk auto-walking It is. Exploration is a big part of open world games. Looking for hidden areas, mapping out resource locations, running into rare mobs/notorious monsters, finding out-of-the-way quests, etc, etc. All of this shit does matter when you play a game. There's more to gaming than the fight boss > collect reward loop. >none of these people ever stepped foot into naxx before Like I just said, there's more to gaming than fighting bosses and collecting rewards. Especially in multi-faceted games like WoW. You can have a person enjoy vanilla WoW without having done much raiding. You can have a person enjoy vanilla WoW without having done much PvP. >people think they like vanilla WoW, but they actually just fucking hate nu-WoW You think you do, but you don't. Remember when you had to spam cities and say "needatank needatank needatank" during TBC days? You don't remember that because now you push a button that just says go to the dungeon. You don't wanna do that. Exact same fucking argument. >it's supposed to be a bad game that's apart of the epic social experience That's on you. Dopamine junkies tend to dislike anything that isn't INSTANT GRATIFICATION and everything needs to happen RIGHT NOW. If I don't get my my awesome reward after having been online for five minutes, then this game fucking sucks. You probably think achievements in games are a good thing, too. Degenerate.
>>430103 >You think you do, but you don't. Remember when you had to spam cities and say "needatank needatank needatank" during TBC days? You don't remember that because now you push a button that just says go to the dungeon. You don't wanna do that. >Exact same fucking argument. And that argument was correct, at least half correct. The LFG chat is archaic and shit. Pre-made group finders are the superior method for grouping and actually finding the content you want to do. Nu-WoW solved a problem with a worse problem, that doesn't mean that the way you grouped before wasn't shit game design though. >Party buffs are an important part of the fantasy that comes with playing cooperative games: you do better when playing with others. Except if you're the wrong class, then you get rejected from every group and are barred from socializing in an MMO. This is why no one takes you retards seriously. You harp on about the game focusing on social aspects while ignoring the fact that the game actively punishes you for attempting to socialize at almost every fucking corner. Get real, retard. Have you even played WoW before? >It is. Exploration is a big part of open world games. Looking for hidden areas, mapping out resource locations, running into rare mobs/notorious monsters, finding out-of-the-way quests, etc, etc. All of this shit does matter when you play a game. There's more to gaming than the fight boss > collect reward loop. Oh yeah, clicking the flight path then literally nothing playing the game for 30 minutes is very epic "exploration". WoW niggers unironically think not playing the game is good game design, holy fuck. >You can have a person enjoy vanilla WoW without having done much raiding. Enjoying something doesn't make it good game design. People enjoy bad games all the time. >That's on you. Dopamine junkies tend to dislike anything that isn't INSTANT GRATIFICATION and everything needs to happen RIGHT NOW. If I don't get my my awesome reward after having been online for five minutes, then this game fucking sucks. You probably think achievements in games are a good thing, too. Degenerate. Strawman.
>>430107 >And that argument was correct, at least half correct. The LFG chat is archaic and shit. Pre-made group finders are the superior method for grouping and actually finding the content you want to do. Congrats, you are the cancer that is killing MMOs. Automated group finders are, almost without exception, completely horrible and antithetical to the spirit of massively multiplayer gaming. They take the social experience of assembling a group and turn it into a robotic assembly line where you never even look at the other players in your party. Just press a button and get teleported into a dungeon with four other shitters that NEVER speak never interact, just sit there spamming buttons like retards. Because that's the sort of audience you cater to when you implement a group-finder; socially inept retards that don't even know how to use the chat system and probably don't even speak English in the first place. A side issue is that these systems inevitably lead to a dumbing down of the content as well. No way is a randomly-assembled group of idiots going to clear BRD or UBRS, so the dungeons get turned into linear corridors with undertuned content that anyone could faceroll. I believe very strongly that MMOs should be social, they should require communication skills to succeed. Otherwise you're just paying a shitty singeplayer RPG where occasionally you see other people (which is largely what retail WoW has become).
>>430182 >Congrats, you are the cancer that is killing MMOs. Did you only just figure that out? It was readily obvious from his first posts. I imagine he's some retarded zoomer who never actually played these games back when they were social games by design.
>>430182 >>430216 It's really fucking sad when you can't even venture out to do a random quest because your main pals aren't online, stumble across a random in the same area, then spontaneously group up because you're on the same quest and there is no reason to keep soloing. Instead everyone seems to leer at each other with suspicion, as if the minute chance someone will get a good drop from a random mob and have to roll for it is not worth the massive advantage in speed and efficiency you get from having more players in your group. I'm also split on the subject of how leveling can be easier or harder for certain classes. In old WoW leveling was difficult for warriors but as a result almost everyone tried to help their neighborhood warrior because he is very important, while also being very gear dependent. Is it shitty that the game is shit for a certain people who basically have to play the game altruistically? Probably, but it also forged a pretty strong community bond. Perhaps in a better MMO, it would be designed so that leveling is a little difficult for every class-- perhaps due to resistances or immunities -- so everyone would be encouraged to group, and it wouldn't be a situation where the mage is objectively the best farming class that can solo massive waves of mobs. Kind of like Diablo 2's Hell difficulty, even trash mobs have immunities but it isn't a big problem for a well balanced group.
>>430416 Final Fantasy XI had the right idea: make grouping overwhelmingly more efficient than soloing, but keep soloing as an option for most jobs. FFXI's implementation still had issues, but it was onto something great. Make pretty much all the good loot, quests, and leveling done in groups. I played FFXI and lemmetellya, groups that communicate properly do great, even with suboptimal compositions, while even the most optimized groups fucking suck if people don't talk things out and figure out who does what and when. The best FFXI pug I've been in had 3 out of 6 slots filled with what the average player consider to be awful classes. But because we organized ourselves and took the time to play as a cohesive unit, we managed to turn what should have been a horrible night of farming into a highly optimized monster slaughter fest, where an entire area's worth of mobs were fed to the meat grinder with enough efficiency to earn approval from German engineers.
>>430182 >Automated group finders are, almost without exception, completely horrible and antithetical to the spirit of massively multiplayer gaming That's not what a pre-made group finder is you stupid fuck. A pre-made group finder is an interface that lists posted groups looking for members. There are addons on private servers that parse the chat for groups and list them in a searchable interface that made forming and finding groups infinitely easier. You're talking about random dungeon finder, which is the "solution" that created an even worse problem I was talking about. Develop some basic reading comprehension before running your mouth you brain dead faggot.
>>430522 >using LFG is shit and outdated >instead use LFG with by parsing it! Guess what numb nuts, both methods rely on LFG chat channels to find groups. Using a tool to create your pug by spamming "LF1M tank Wailing Caverns" is the exact same as using general chat in The Barrens to find a god damn tank for Wailing Caverns. You fucking tool. Also the Blizz idiot's argument that 1) having to find people to run dungeons with sucks and 2) the convenience of a one button click that teleports you to the dungeon is superior to having to gather your party before venturing forth. You've flat out said that you disagree with #1 >You're talking about random dungeon finder, which is the "solution" that created an even worse problem I was talking about so if your original "that argument was half correct" statement is directed at #1 you're a god damn idiot and are lacking the awareness needed to argue with your betters. And if your "that argument was half correct" refers to #2, then you effectively are the cancer killing MMOs, and the other anon was right for calling you out on it.
>>430554 Personally I think it doesn't really matter as long as the game has dungeons that require actual teamwork to complete. Dungeons and Dragons Online is a fairly good example of this. It is only slightly more than a city-shaped lobby with dungeon instances that you teleport to, and it has a group finder interface. But it has some of the best dungeoning I've played in an MMO, despite not really being a true MMO.
>>430554 >Also the Blizz idiot's argument that 1) having to find people to run dungeons with sucks He specifically mentions having to sit around spamming chat or scanning through chat. That process does and did fucking suck. >2) the convenience of a one button click that teleports you to the dungeon is superior to having to gather your party before venturing forth. This is another "half-right" point. But it was already effectively solved with meeting stones as a very good compromise. >instead use LFG with by parsing it! I was just making an example of how people solved the problem through addons. In reality you would want every single player to create and find groups through a proper interface. No one should need to be sitting around manually spamming group chat while sitting in town instead of going around playing the fucking game while waiting for people to group with. Outdated is also a silly phrase. It was retarded from the very day it was designed. Archaic is a better word. >so if your original "that argument was half correct" statement is directed at #1 you're a god damn idiot and are lacking the awareness needed to argue with your betters. And if your "that argument was half correct" refers to #2, then you effectively are the cancer killing MMOs, and the other anon was right for calling you out on it. Both points are half correct, you just "lack the awareness needed to argue with your 'betters'".
>>430558 Oh don't misunderstand me. My main argument is that devaluating the "massive" and "multiplayer" parts of MMORPGs is what's killing the genre. While I haven't played Dungeon and Dragons Online, I am familiar with that type of game setup where you go to a hub or lobby, form a group and run instance content. And thus I can safely say that my argument doesn't apply to those types of game. In short, simplified or automated group matchmaking in these types of games isn't necessarily a bad thing. >>430560 >spamming chat or scanning through chat does and did suck Ya, no shit. That's why you build rapport, add good players to your friend list, join guilds, whisper people individually. You know, all those pesky social interactions that really suck and need to be automated in order to streamline the game! >but it was already effectively solved with meeting stones as a very good compromise No. God fucking damnit, no. Meeting stones were a step towards emptying the world, taking the "massive" part out of the MMO. If you build a massive fucking world, populate it with quests, mobs, and most importantly players, it makes no sense to try and take players out of the world by making travel to dungeons instantaneous for all. Also, meeting stones encouraged lazyness, and often made getting to dungeons take fucking longer because every idiot in the party expects every other idiot to go to the stone first. I much prefer having to deal with "I'm lost and I don't know how to get to you guys" than getting to a meeting stone and realizing 15 minutes later that the 4 pips on the world map haven't moved from where they were when the group finished forming up. >you would want every single player to create and find groups through a proper interface I think the reason you haven't killed yourself is because you're too fucking stupid to figure out how. Listen here you dumb piece of shit: ideally you would want most pugs to be created organically, or through social interactions that are encouraged by the game's SYSTEMS. In other words, not the game's interface. If some faglord wants to take his butt buddy to the Stone of Homosexuality in order to craft his Dildo of Ass Smiting+2, he'd want to ask around the outpost/town/city for other gaylords that need to go in that general area and form a group with those other cocksuckers and then go traipsing through the Fairy Woods together. As opposed to opening up the group interface, putting in your role, and waiting for grindr to match you with other queers. PS: you're the faglord.
And since it's pretty fucking relevant: https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/news/23730850/wow-classic-season-of-mastery-coming-soon Greetings, adventurers! WoW Classic Season of Mastery is coming, giving all players a chance to start fresh and a level playing field. This time around, we’re planning #slightlymorechanges. We will launch new WoW Classic realms for Season of Mastery. These realms will invite new and current Classic players to begin fresh at level 1 for a complete reset of WoW Classic’s content, starting again at the very beginning of the World of Warcraft saga. What’s different in WoW Classic Season of Mastery? As with the first release of WoW Classic, we’re planning six content release phases. In WoW Classic Season of Mastery, however, phase unlocks will happen faster. We’re planning for a 12-month cadence, with phases unlocking roughly every couple months. Here’s the current outline for the six phases: Phase 1 (WoW Classic Season of Mastery Launch) Molten Core Onyxia Maraudon PvP Honor System and Battlegrounds (up from Phases 3 and 4) Phase 2 Dire Maul Azuregos Kazzak Phase 3 Blackwing Lair Darkmoon Faire Darkmoon deck drops begin Phase 4 Zul’Gurub Green Dragons Phase 5 Ahn’Qiraj War Effort begins Ahn’Qiraj raids open as the war effort dictates Phase 6 Naxxramas Scourge Invasion Raid Boss Updates The original release of WoW Classic was made to re-create the difficulty and challenge of patch 1.12 from the original World of Warcraft release. While we strived to bring a faithful re-creation of that release, many raid encounters turned out to be easier than the first time around—players simply were more experienced and prepared, and patch updates greatly increased player power. With that in mind, we’re planning a few changes to make those early raid bosses pack a bit more of a punch, and attempt to recapture the original challenge they presented. These changes currently include (but are not limited to): World buffs (like Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer and others) disabled in Raid instances Restoring mechanics that were removed early on to some Raid bosses No boss debuff limit (up from 16 debuffs in WoW Classic) Increased health on bosses, to offset player buffs and the removed debuff limit Our intent with these changes is for this experience to feel somewhat more challenging than WoW Classic did in 2019. Due to Season of Mastery’s faster content release cadence, we’re also planning several improvements and changes. These include: Faster Leveling We’re planning on increasing experience gains from what they were in the first iteration of WoW Classic. Our current plan is to set them close to what the 1-60 XP rates are in Burning Crusade Classic™ with a bigger focus on quest XP increases. Quality of Life Updates In addition, we’re planning on introducing certain improvements that weren’t in the original WoW Classic release, but that we think can help create a better experience, such as: Meeting Stones converted to Summoning Stones Increased Mining and Herbalism nodes Realms tend to be more densely populated in WoW Classic compared to the original 2005 design. Increasing gathering node spawns should provide a more consistent economy this time around. WoW Classic Season of Mastery will have an Open Beta beginning on October 5. We look forward to hearing your feedback on these changes and many others as we continue to iterate on them. Keep an eye on the forums and https://worldofwarcraft.com/news for the latest developments.
>>430593 >Ya, no shit. That's why you build rapport, add good players to your friend list, join guilds, whisper people individually. You know, all those pesky social interactions that really suck and need to be automated in order to streamline the game! Knowing how to mitigate shit game design doesn't mean it stops being shit game design. You're trying to sell me on the UX being shit to incentivize socialization in a game that gimps your experience when you play with other people. I would call this gaslighting if I didn't know you were just retarded. >If you build a massive fucking world, populate it with quests, mobs, and most importantly players, it makes no sense to try and take players out of the world by making travel to dungeons instantaneous for all It's not instantaneous for all, it's instantaneous for half the group after some dedicate themselves to traveling to the dungeon. It's a compromise that I find good. "Step towards" is just a non-sense slippery slope argument. I don't care about what it leads to with perpetual incompetent game design iterations, I care about how good it is in isolation. And in isolation it's fine. >Also, meeting stones encouraged lazyness, and often made getting to dungeons take fucking longer because every idiot in the party expects every other idiot to go to the stone first. I much prefer having to deal with "I'm lost and I don't know how to get to you guys" than getting to a meeting stone and realizing 15 minutes later that the 4 pips on the world map haven't moved from where they were when the group finished forming up. I understand that you find the concept of tedious travel to dungeons cool. But the reality of that implementation is literally just you afking while you wait 40 minutes for some dude to travel from silithus to strat. Game design that results you in all 5 players just literally not playing the game for an hour straight is shit regardless of how cool the concepts behind it might be. You tout the game as an epic social experience while describing mechanics that actively punish you for trying to socialize. It's absurd. > Listen here you dumb piece of shit: ideally you would want most pugs to be created organically, or through social interactions that are encouraged by the game's SYSTEMS. I don't live in an ideal world, I live in reality. People spamming LFG is no more organic than a pre-made group finding interface. I'm not talking about some idealistic perfect vision for the game where some magical feature that doesn't exist and that you aren't describing fixes everything about how people interact with the game for the ultimate immersive experience. I'm talking about taking the way that 99.999% of players interact with the game and making it slightly less cancer. WoW is not and has never been the perfect sandbox you're making it out to be. People have always and will always take the path of least resistance. No one is sitting around individually chatting in /say to every single person they come across in Org to recruit them to their war efforts or dungineering adventures. Get a fucking grip, faglord.
>>430593 >I haven't played Dungeons and Dragons Online Would highly recommend, it isn't nearly dead unlike Turbines other game (LOTRO) and the dungeons are surprisingly well designed. The only problem is that you have to start buying content around level 9 or 10, but that takes a long time (it's D&D based levels, not WoW based levels) and I think they have sales/giveaways like LOTRO does
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Playing with 8/v/ years ago, before everybody quit and disappeared, was the most fun MMO experience I had. Thank you guys again for making my Royal Blacksmith dreams come true. FF11 came close but there were barely any anons who wanted to put up with that game's archaic bs when I played it. >>430593 >Fairy Woods Funny and true.
>>430560 >He specifically mentions having to sit around spamming chat or scanning through chat. That process does and did fucking suck. Nah, it was fine. MMO's ideally (and before WOW killed it) aren't just slaying monsters. There's other just as worthwhile things to do inbetween that, and those are the things you should be doing while simultaneously looking for niggers in chat. Go mining, go fishing, go crafting, go sort your inventory, go sell shit on the auction house, actually speak to the people that you already do have in group, etc etc. People screeching about how terrible looking for group was are massively overstating it, or were simply retards doing it incorrectly by sitting on their thumbs for however long it took to get that final important role before taking off.
>>430724 >MMO's ideally (and before WOW killed it) aren't just slaying monsters Cool, we're talking about vanilla WoW game design. >People screeching about how terrible looking for group was are massively overstating it, or were simply retards doing it incorrectly by sitting on their thumbs for however long it took to get that final important role before taking off. Nah. Having to sit there and manually stare at LFG chat to see if there are people looking to group for the content you want to do is absolutely not even remotely any different than having that process streamlined into a proper interface for creating and discovering groups. If people are bending over backwards to parse the chat information with commonly used phrases and presenting that in an addon then clearly it's just a more annoying method of interacting with information. It's acutally unfathomable to me that you're unrionically proposing that squinting at your fucking chat for 30 minutes instead of just having an interface that shows when people are doing the content you're interested in and allows you to start whispering them right away. You know sometimes I wonder how it's possible that the people at Blizzard managed to not only make the decisions they did, but actually got paid to do. But after over a decade of interacting with MMO subhumans like you fucktards I've been severely black pilled on the average persons capacity to comprehend good game design.
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>>430733 >Cool, we're talking about vanilla WoW game design. Oh, good. Then we have absolutely no contention and you realize you are simply a retarded faggot. Didn't bother to read the rest of your drivel Dismissed, garbage.
<<430735 >cuckchan filename Yup, there it is.
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>>430736 Couldn't care less. Stay defeated, trash.
>>430626 Not sure if you were around about 9 months ago but we played some MMOs together by voting on them after 2 weeks. Pic-related >>373149 Still want to get some anons together and try new games
>>430801 I've been messing around on MMO's for the last couple weeks. Lotor for a bit, installed DDO but haven't created a character yet, and today I've been fucking around in Neverwinter.
>>430594 There it is. I'd been saying from early on that Blizzard should do seasonal fresh servers with modified balance and content to shake up the meta and keep things interesting. This sounds like basically exactly what I wanted. I wonder if they'll ever go so far as to actually change the balance, such as back-porting the TBC class design into Classic. Some private servers have tried but they usually lack the playerbase to actually make a compelling experience. As much as I love the concept of seasonal classic and would enjoy playing, it's just not worth staying in that abusive relationship. Blizzard is a sinking ship and they always manage to fuck this stuff up. One thing I noticed here was a total lack of any plans regarding faction imbalance, which hit Classic hard. They need to implement some kind of faction queue or incentives to keep servers even. I also think this is coming too soon. TBC isn't even fully progressed and now they're going to split the population AGAIN with this seasonal Classic.
>>430593 >Dildo of Ass Smiting+2 >Not Dildo of Assturbation+2
>>315803 >Why not include some minigame, or social challenge? What if you had 3 characters you always play at once? One is a fighter, the other a crafter, and the last a gatherer. The crafter and gatherer are 1 hitpoint always die characters and only the fighter can do things normal MMO characters do. So while the Fighter is waiting flying taxi or other party members to arrive, you are doing stuff in the safety of a capital with the crafter or walking about in a player secured zone with a gatherer? That way, crafting can be unending tedious watching bars go up forever, and so could be gathering, and yet, no matter what, your fighter is there for you to "alt tab to it" at a moments notice once you get your crafter and gather doing their things. Think of Mortal Online 1 gathering and processing materials for the gatherer/crafter characters.
>>431352 Seems convoluted to require multiple characters for something that can easily be done on one character. FFXIV's system of just being able to do everything on one character is superior. You should just be able to craft whenever all the time.
>>373568 >If the game burns 0.1% of all GPUS and 100 people play, nobody gets their GPU brunt >if 1000 people play, 1 GPU dies >if 10.000 people play, 10 GPU dies >if 100.000 people play, holy shit 100 GPU died >if 1.000.000 people play HOLY SHIT THE WORLD IS ENDING THERE ARE NO MORE GPUS ANYWHERE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
>>431355 >easily be done on one character One character can't be in 3 places at once, that's the biggest point of the idea.
>>431359 Why should your character need to be anywhere but where it is to do crafting? Multi-boxing is something that the overwhelming majority of people find to be some high level sperg shit. Most people want to be able to interact with the game through a single character and not ever think about micro-management at that level. And as someone who is an autistic multi-boxing retard even I think the existence of multi-boxing is just a design flaw.
>>428064 It's somewhat fun. I come back to it every couple of years for some grind.
>>431361 But that would solve the issue of >>315803 >I don't want to know how much was spent just standing or sitting around.
>>431363 You can solve that issue in a myriad of ways without obligating people into constantly switching between characters and micro-managing crafting alts.
Apparently New World is still frying random GPU's even after being patched.
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>New World top kek
>>431373 Yeah, apparently something about New World is causing GPU fans to go crazy, they attempt to spin up to impossible RPMs and burn out. Some people are theorizing it's due to the uncap framerate setting, others think it's faulty GPUs and are blaming the manufacturors. But it's suspicious that it seems to only be happening with New World.
>>432171 Was this not an issue with the beta? how is this shit not fixed? oh right, I forgot betas are just for hype and not for finding and fixing issues.
>>432171 I'm guessing other games with whatever particular bad programming New World has that causes this problem would also cause these particular hardware configurations to rarely fail like this, too. But the chance is rare enough that you don't see it at the mainstream media level until you get several hundred thousand people all playing the game, experiencing the failures, and talking about them online at the same time. There are other games where you can uncap the framerate in a menu and get your GPU to heat up and crash, and probably doing that rarely or with certain configurations can brick the GPU, too. Weight of numbers here is just making the problem prevalent enough and in a popular enough game that the media picked up on it, rather than it just showing up once a year on a gamefags forum for a game when some mouthbreather fucks with something he doesn't understand.
>>432171 Apparently from what I've been reading the 30 series of cards has been having a lot of problems with burning out in general. I imagine they're cheaping out even harder on bootleg chinese components since the ching chong choo threw material prices out of whack, so shit keeps detonating.
>>432226 >Apparently from what I've been reading the 30 series of cards has been having a lot of problems with burning out in general Happens with every generation of GPU's. That's why it pays to fucking wait for the kinks to be ironed out.
Any anons playing lotro should hold off on Moria or spending anything on legendary items in general until the patch on the 13th, due to the big change in how legendary items will work, and current ones will be incapable of getting reforged once the patch rolls out.
Re:Imagine got an update https://reimagine.online/news/post/61 >New dungeon >New shop >New skill >New demon >New items >Adjustments May get back on and play this a little before Endwalker drops next month
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>>444911 >all these new mixing recipes >Broken IC Chip (1) + Broken IC Chip (1) = Hacked Chip A
>>444934 I logged on and for some reason I have like 1,000 comp points when last I remember I had around 100.
>>444964 Everyone got them due to the anniversary.
>>444965 Oh sweet, that's gonna come in handy for destiny.
>>444911 Was just about to post about it myself. Pretty interesting stuff.
>>445014 Turns out I fucking suck at making 2-frame animations. Something went horribly wrong there and I will look into it later.
>>445014 >>445018 Well I'm in the mood to play this now so I'll be on it. Gonna be working on my demon compendium. This is actually a good time for any other anon who's interested to start the game seeing as we got all these comp points from the anniversary. We could help some new anons level fast.
>>444911 So most any potato can run IMAGINE? Since it's from 2007. I think I'll try this game for a bit to see if I like it. I don't think I can autism it but if it's moddable, that's better.
>>445493 It's definitely potato-friendly. If you decide to check it out drop your player name in the thread and I'll send a friend request if you're on and a clan invite.
>>445513 I'm on the beginner quests. My only complaint so far is the slow walk speed and the delay between battle commands and animations so it's janky. The SMT MMO concept is cool though. Player name is Binarykid.
>>445827 You can buy an item in the comp shop that speeds up your walk speed. Also be sure you read the wiki. You'll need it for doing the main quest as well as other stuff like building your class. https://wiki.reimagine.online/Main_Page Most of the stuff in the game is translated but there's still some items that aren't as well as some quest dialogue, but the wiki helps with that.
Be sure you do these quests to unlock the material tank, which saves you some inventory space. After you unlock the material tank just check in your inventory and open the material tank option to see what items can be placed in it. All you have to do is double-click the items and they get stored in the tank. https://wiki.reimagine.online/Quest:_Understanding_Plasma https://wiki.reimagine.online/Quest:_Extract_the_Aluminum! The quests are easy and are around the starter area.
At the end of dungeon runs you get Golden Apples and Yaguya Reports. Yaguya Reports are used to trade in for comp points (CP) or raise your expertise level at the Demon God Thoth NPC, who can be found in Home III. Golden Apples are used to either give you or your demon EXP by talking to the Vivian demon NPC. Be sure you look up what expertise needs to be enabled for your specific class. You can bring up the expertise menu under PC. You'll have to check the expertise on by clicking the greyed out minus symbol into a red arrow, that enables the expertise to get EXP and rank up.
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Might as well repost this stuff to help new ReImagine players. Also, to expand on the tip to check every item for mixing possibilities before using them: This extends to data tickets themselves as well.
playing swtor hit level 70 unable to get any more exp realized i need to subscribe to hit max level Instantly lose motivation
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>because of missing out on vanilla and wotlk I'm coping by playing pservers, classic and now som >I will never have a time machine
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>>445921 thats hot
>>445921 You aren't coping playing private servers. Private servers are a better experience than the "real thing" is by a long shot. Blizzard's "Classic" servers proved this. Wow is shit though the only thing you should use a time machine for is to strangle all the original Blizzard developers in the crib to prevent it from ever having existed.
>>445891 I'm only able to do 1 or 2 class storylines per year then I get bored for awhile. I've only ever made it to 60 on a single class. But I have a premium account since I subbed for 1 month awhile back for some of the permanent benefits. Do you need to stay subbed to hit max level? If you just need premium status I'd say it's not really that big of a deal to drop $15 on a game you've played enough to hit level 70 in.
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After that hellish run with low level and starting gear, Demi help set me up with some serviceable gear. Ranged is fun. Pop pop. Watch demons drop. It's like being Revolver Ocelot. Press F to win. The drawback being you have to be in melee range to mag dump.
>>446031 you need to sub at least once for every expansion to get that current expansions max level The thing is an expansion is right around the corner this December so i dont want to sub more then i have to. This and FFXIV having its own expansion in november and i might be too busy to play swtor till January.
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>>446036 This is why you go Magic Bullet, instead of mag dump you just snipe things with cursed bullets, combine with Conditions of Ranged Combat for lots of crits.
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>>445967 it was on their website long ago
Should I make a separate thread for Re:IMAGINE or just leave the conversation here?
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>>430626 Sup, Nikui. Some of us have landed and are sticking to FF14, if you want to join us. We need more people since normalfags have a way of flaking off very soon. We're even trying to replicate some of the mabi magic by (attempting) to hold our own banquets. Had one a couple of weeks ago, and it was just like old times. Lots of emotes and stuff to have a good time. There's no /discopump but there is /mdance. There's also /gpose for some really good picture and video taking (pics related). We shitpost in a private discord. You don't have to use it if you don't want, but you'll miss out on shitposts like the last pic. It's an edit of someone in game with the face of his mabi character imposed over it. Our Free Company name is Firaga Firm <<FIR3>> if you're interested.
>>446320 >discord
>>446323 Yeah, it's a shame that even discord's browser version pierces even Tor and VPNs. Hell, you're probably already compromised with just that greentext. My throwaway emails and bounced IPs are already sold to C H I N A, so I have nothing left to lose.
>>446326 Are you guys on Exodus with the other /v/ FC?
>>446326 >I have nothing to hide (anymore) Yeah but you also don't own your own server and it can be closed at any time when some bot run by an admin sweeps it for bad words, loli hashes and "misinformation" because you made a joke about a bat or autism once. If you're going to make a community of anons, please at least use decent chat software. Open source, and something that YOU own that doesn't spy. Matrix is supposedly the exact same thing but without the gay shit.
>>446326 You barely even scratched the surface of why discord is absolutely cancer. Besides the malware it will arbitrarily lock people out of their accounts and demand their phone number. You're basically conceding that you're willing to lose contact with the friends you're making unless they fork up money for a burner just to use a basic chat service. You can smug post about opsec all you want but discord is so fucking cancerous that it goes well above and beyond just being proprietary malware. It's proprietary malware that you need to bend over backwards to even have the privilege of using. Fuck discord and fuck discord apologists. >>446335 That's another component I didn't think about. Not only will contact with individual friends potentially disappear on a whim but your entire chat groups can poof over night. I've heard of servers for strategy games that have nazi iconography get obliterated in a similar fashion.
where can i play club penguin
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>>446334 We're on Exodus, but I don't know the other /v/ FC. Check us out on mogstation or whatever if you want to run duties or hang out at our FC house. The leader is trying to get everyone to 80 so we can do endgame content. He's even trying to prepare HQ exarchic sets for everyone. >>446335 If I was the glorious leader, we'd be on matrix, or just threads on /v/. I'm worried that we'll one day accidentally recruit the renegade tranny janny who will snitch on our jokes, but the leader is so autistic for the "right kind of person we get along with" that he'll probably sniff them out before they even get in. >>446337 I used a burner email so I wouldn't end up with bajillions of the same name on a single server, but never needed a burner number. Not sure where you're getting that from. >Fuck discord and discord apologists M8, I'm shilling an MMO guild to /v/irgins. You don't need discord for that, but you're such a sperg about your hateboner that we won't want you anyway.
>>446357 >Not sure where you're getting that from. From experience and hundreds of people on forums having the same issue. Just because you haven't been arbitrarily locked out of your account yet doesn't mean it won't happen eventually or to people you want to interact with. >but you're such a sperg about your hateboner that we won't want you anyway.
I'm on Hyperion at the moment with my normalfag friends, so I can't join the FC, and I'm not using Discord. Is there a Linkshell I can join? Might transfer servers later.
>>446357 >You don't need discord for that, but you're such a sperg about your hateboner that we won't want you anyway. Yeah, I'll pass too.
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>>446369 I don't know how to invite, or have you join, but this is it.
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>>446378 Apparently someone needs to send an invitation. I'll see if I can PM someone when I hop on next.
>>446357 I've been meaning to transfer servers but it's gonna suck to have to remodel my apartment. Does Exodus have a decent amount of player population? Like the party finder has players doing treasure maps or places like Eulmore are populated during peak hours.
>>446320 >FFXIV Mate, I uninstalled that the other day to make room on my PC. The graphics look pretty but the game is generic WoW. Re:Imagine is like Mabi with the stunlocks and stuff so I'm having fun with that for now. Besides, I hate subscription games. >>446318 The meme build I want. My MMO philosophy has not changed. Blocking is for pussies.
>>446475 Forgot to mention since you were having inventory problems, every time you get 50,000 macca in your inventory go to the comp shop and select the ATM option. It'll convert your 50,000 macca coins into paper currency that stacks.
Some other information that came to mind >Save your fighting spirits that drop and bring them to NPC Salen in Shinjuku Docks. You can trade them for items such as weapons, gear, and even summon PGs (demon summons) >Broken IC chips can be fixed by Virtual girl in Virtual World, these allow you to do hacked chip runs and get demons >Every few levels and acts, talk to Snakeman in Virtual World and select the option report on recent conditions. Talk the to Yagigami NPC as well and you'll receive rewards >You can do a daily mission once per day by going to the green terminals and selecting daily mission, and the level you want to play it on. Complete the mission and you'll receive a DM card that you can exchange for items at the DB Daily Girl NPC >Save your DCMs so you can register the corresponding demon into the demonic compendium. The more entries in your demonic compendium the better plug-ins you'll unlock to fuse for good demons >Decide on what alignment you'll go for. Between Law, Neutral, and Chaos. There are benefits to what you are aligned to such as being able to have a better percent at successfully fusing a demon that is of the same alignment, and the demon costing less magnetite to summon >To shift your alignment there are quests, even act quests that depending on that dialogue option you choose your alignment will be shifted or left alone. You can also donate macca to the churches of law and chaos to shift your alignment towards them
>>446320 >OG >discord lol faggot
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>>430626 Hi Nikui. If you see this, it's Dart. I've been meaning to gather the rest of everyone that I can from mabi since I've been missing a lot of the old regulars as the entry was so fun. I miss Shotasucks and Ceres, for instance, but no way to contact them when they dropped off. There's a steam group that's gathered a bunch, I think a mailing list, and a discord or two. There may also be another that I don't know about. >>446463 Exodus has a fine player population. It's probably one of the more active primal servers, but it's also not hard to get a home even with the surge of population. If you're on primal I can just send you a link to the CWLS, you don't necessarily need to be on our serv. I think there's a private messaging system on the lodestone, or else you can follow the guild master or the firm and I can probably grab you that way. >>446387 You can send a PM to anyone on that list to get an invite if you're on primal, but to do so you have to be world visiting exodus. "Dartier" is usually on during the later hours EST. >>446374 That's the old mabi guild master, and he's not very good with mincing his words. But the truth is, if anyone wanted to slap you down for one reason or another, they probably already would've done it. I mean, you're using a clearnet imageboard.
>>446584 >leaping from using a clearnet website to using discord Just take the licks and accept that you're fucking lame for being goyscord fags. You trying to justify or excuse it is like listening to Acid explaining how he's totally not an interracial cuckold fetishist after posting his 37th image of interracial cuckold porn in a row.
>>446588 >just abide by my definitions and let me control the dialogue No, lol.
>>446594 I mean I'm perfectly willing to engage with you as you conflate accessing a clearnet website to using a proprietary spyware application known for censoring and banning their users. I just figured I'd give you the benefit of the doubt first before embarrassing you and derailing the thread.
>>446597 Anon, the discord is some ancient holdover from mabi and we haven't been binned for like 5 years, even through the tarrant meme. There's backups to get into contact with each-other assuming it gets boink'd. Regardless of your personal grievances, your autism is unjustified and even this place is probably under the dragnet for money like 8chan was with hollaforums. I already know the complaints about opsec, and I've had the same arguments before. If you actually cared that much about it, you'd be on a linux distro your built almost entirely by yourself, using tor on an onion imageboard. If you're on an mmo you're usually submitting billing info and everything.
>>446602 Why are you using 8chan instead of 4chan?
>>446603 Not an argument.
>>446602 >If you actually cared that much about it, you'd be on a linux distro your built almost entirely by yourself, using tor on an onion imageboard Potentiality for malware is not equivalent to guaranteed malware. Potentiality for malware doesn't justify choosing to use malware. Not all threat models are identical. >>446606 It wasn't supposed to be. It was a probe into understanding how your logic works. I'm legitimately curious how you reconcile not caring about censorship and malware while also choosing to use this site over cuckchan which exists entirely because of those reasons. Is there a particular reason why I can't apply your dismissal of incremental improvements to the imageboards your choose to use? Is there a reason you don't use reddit? I'm wondering where you draw the line and why.
>>446608 I don't go to places with unpleasant people. That's all. I use smuglo more than here. Reddit is filled with unpleasant sycophantic faux-intellectual hive-minded morons. Usually, imageboards are too.
>>446610 And yet you came to a thread where you were almost universally met with disdain when presenting your discord clique? I think the funniest part is that there are actually dozens of good reasons for using the software but your go to argument is that because the intel management engine exists no one should ever care about what any of the software or the people in control of the software are doing. That level of apathy is so absurd it makes me wonder how you even made it to a backwater forum like this in the first place.
>>446613 I was told an old friend I had lost contact with was here, so I came to say hello. I'm sure you can understand, right?
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>>446613 >almost universally met with disdain >3 replies that is just a 1 and done, you and some other fag who only posted twice.
>>446584 I'm on Crystal but I'll transfer to Exodus. Maybe you guys should join the linkshell that the other /v/ FC is on. Would have more anons talking to each other.
>>446614 I can understand plenty of things. I can understand using discord. I can understand wanting to contact old friends. I can not understand bending over backwards to make absurd arguments about how you should never care about the kind of software you're running because you've personally conceded all worries about privacy and security. Why is your ego tied to peoples opinions on the software you're using? >>446615 3 replies is 70% of the userbase.
>>446617 Incidentally, we're already in that one. Our cultures are a bit different but they're good people.
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>>446618 this thread has 180 UIDs, that's less than that 70% you claim to be. maybe you should calm down and stop being a pretentious pseudo intellectual.
>>446620 >pseudo-intellectualism is when people don't have amicable conversations Bit ironic
>>446618 which LC, Firaga firm? I'm hoping when that endwalker patch comes in we can all get together and have fun in other people's worlds.
>>446623 "Sneed" is the other 8chan LC, Firaga Firm is for the free company and the couple of our friends who aren't in the free company. we've got 11~ or so people, and sneed has way more active people and probably more when the expansion drops.
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>>446624 ah ok, I'm in that one too.
>>446623 Cross World is delayed until a post-endwalker patch I believe, because Asmonigger and WoW imploding has swamped the servers that bad. I'm stuck on Aether until then, pray for me.
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>>446584 SEND HEARTS TO DARTIER I remember you. The guild's enchanter. You broke one of these. Back then, I smithed only 3 of them in the whole server. If you succeeded, it would have been sweet. Strongest crafted weapon in the game. I was distraught. Good to see you too.
>>446642 Ah, you replied. If you want any way to contact me I can provide a bunch including emails, if you like. There's also the old mabi /v/ steam group.
To any anons that are bored and have nothing to play, or to the anons who have been playing FFXIV but have nothing to do until Endwalker consider checking out SMT Re:IMAGINE. I myself am playing this till Endwalker which is about a whole month left. Gives me plenty of time to do what I need to do left in the game and also time to help others experience the game. I can get you geared up and levelled pretty easily as I have with others.
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>>446674 And as usual if clan master duties are needed or if we need another sub, I am always lurking because I don't have a life.
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>>446652 I don't get on Steam much or game as often before. Here's my profile for an invite.
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>>446981 I added you.
Gonna make a separate thread for Re:IMAGINE since this thread got bumplocked. There's also already an FFXIV thread for discussion on that game.


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