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Bad Game Design and Game Design General Anonymous 09/21/2022 (Wed) 19:51:32 Id: bb11be No. 696208
To start off, Cyberpunk 2077. >Has stealth but the enemies are bullet sponges (because of the loot system) and none of the enemy groups in the game are designed around stealth >Had a perk that allowed you to throw knives, which are semi rare, and you lost them forever, until they patched it so it's just a cooldown. Knives were the only other option for stealth besides silenced revolvers and rifles >has character creation but hardly ever displays your stuff because you're always in first person. >Random missions on the street can have enemies who randomly kill you in one shot with a peashooter because the encounters are leveled without considering where the player at a certain level has access, which is EVERYWHERE after the first act is over. >Despite having enemies way over your level, you don't get loot that matches their power if you defeat them, as the loot you get is leveled to YOU and anything above your level if you DO find it in the world is unable to be used (There are fixed drops), arbitrarily. >Iconic (unique and powerful gear) weapons are also leveled to you, so if you don't spec into crafting they're all useless unless you find them at level 50, and they'll quickly get outpaced by shit on the street. >Melee is an option, but none of the perks you get do anything but increase your damage. Building into it with cyberware doesn't add much. >The harder difficulties are not the way to actually play the game, because it ups the enemy health, damage and armor, so if you fight any group early on, you'll get one shotted often. >You can't get chased by police in a car because they didn't program that shit in >The design in general is an example of the devs wanting you to have options, but the options conflict against eachother in design (stealth doesn't work because enemies are sponges who don't die from sneak attacks or have good AI, loot system doesn't work because it doesn't commit or allow the player to get ahead, the crime system does not work because it was underdeveloped and the AI is shit) Sounds to me like it was a case of developer conflict. They didn't know what the fuck to focus on. They wanted it to be Borderlands, but also have stealth. They wanted you to be powerful, but the enemy balance lists compensate by being bullshit and random, they want you to be blocked off from stuff for "reputation reasons" so you have incentive to move up, which exacerbates the random difficulty, they wanted to create a living, breathing world, but they don't even work on the fucking AI? Many indie games that do less, do better then this. And that's not a compliment to indies. And on top of that they pull the same AAA tricks in the story (walkie talkie scenes, slow setpiece scenes like hacking and braindances, etc). I think they committed the cardinal sin of focusing on cutscenes and environment FIRST, rather then the game system and game loops themselves, because the cut content vibe of the story missions reek of that. The flathead being a story piece rather then a gadget, the whole scale back on the hacking system, removal of climbing with mantis blades, removal of fluff pieces like the stalls, the extremely overdone yet empty world, horrible optimization, it reeks of that shit. They're updating it but they aren't fixing it. The whole game is a disasterpiece from start to finish, literally all the choices in development they made were ill-thought out. The graphics are nice. That's about it. Also fuck this game. So any other standouts in game history, now or recent?
Summon Night Twin Age >Using any skill with a casting time makes the user completely invulnerable during casting time, including skills that heal or restore mana >Characters can basically be invincible 99% of the time >This also applies to enemies, bosses who have skills that have a casting time are invincible half of the time and causes most of your hits to be wasted >The best tactic against bosses who can cast skills is to just run around or stand still and constantly cast restore mana on yourself to make yourself invincible until the boss runs out of mana, then wail on them with your hardest hits I'm pretty sure no one actually playtested this game
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This thread will probably be bait central, and this post is going to seem like bait at first glance, but Jak 2 is a horribly designed game. >Giant "open world" city that's empty and has nothing to do >Complete nightmare to navigate >Combat is terrible >Platformer with barely any platforming >Vehicles feel awful to control >Lots of "fly through the rings" and "collect all the objects within the timer" type missions There are other problems I have with it like the tonal shift, but that's getting too subjective. It's easier to point to the map as an example of the game's weird design problems, just look at it. The engine was not built to support this kind of game, so most of the city is separated into these sectors often with no easy way of going between them. Most people played Jak 2 as a kid and find it hard to accept it has more cons than pros. Nostalgia is blinding.
Pretty much every RPG ever: > Stealth skills make a sneaky build an option < You get EXP for killing enemies, but not for avoiding them Even if you get EXP for solving the quest, you would have gotten those as any other class as well, plus the EXP from combat on top of that. The only games that have done it correctly are Deus Ex and Dark Messiah because in those games you don't get any EXP from killing > Stealth skills make a sneaky build an option < You get railroaded into unavoidable boss fights Well, thanks for wasting my time to get this far only to be stomped because my character is useless in combat. If the game lets me play as a sneak, then it should give me a sneaky way that avoids the battle. Something only a character who has specialized in stealth can do. > Game gives you really cool role-playing skills < They are useless 99% of the time Arcanum is especially guilty of this. You could put points in gambling to role-play, but for 99% of the game that skill will be useless while putting the points into a combat or magic skill would have been useful for the entire game. There might be one or two quests where that skill will shine, but any character could have solved that quest in a different way anyway.
>Purposely insert anti-player design choices and feature into your game >Clearly placing narrative, meta-commentary and your own artistic vision over the enjoyment of your player base >the fact that you can't save or restart anywhere but at the beginning if you die in the nearly an hour long tutorial. >easy difficulty for retards that autoplays the game for you (why even add this?) >confident enough about the gameplay loop that you offer to think that people are willing to put up with your game several times on end to get a true ending >fucking reliance on web servers to obtain the true ending or otherwise making it impossible to obtain it (IN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME)
>>696235 >Giant "open world" city that's empty and has nothing to do That is what the open world meme is. You can only have fun or open world. You can't have both.
The Witcher 3, despite it having a-lot of potential and being pretty solid in some areas. >Controlling Geralt is clunky >Combat is very repetitive, as all you do is swing your blade and dodge an enemy's attack as you did in TW2. >Enemies are diverse, but there is no variation that makes them fighting them more unique. Basically Nekkers and wolves are the same enemy with different animations. >Unlimited Stamina makes the game easier and renders your other abilities as trivial. >Swords do not break and become unusable when it has been exhausted of its durability. >Swimming is shit and also clunky. >Items are helpful, but mostly useless, and yes this is still the case on the hardest difficulty, Death March. >Quen is only useful for tanking hits. >Side-quests and witcher contracts give you less cash than selling junk and gear to merchants >The writers thinks everyone saying "fuck" and "shit" is relatable and humorous in a medieval setting where you would be scolded for doing so >Food makes you nearly invincible and increases your survivability over oils, potions and bombs. >The Economy is very unbalanced. Most loot are meaningless, unless you want to make cash, although you either obtain more than what you need from doing quests such as food, weapons, or crafting material. I mean I can go on, I might as well make a whole review for the game instead of discussing design flaws. Overall, the game is very mediocre and the hype for it, and CDPR lying about how it was going to be far more hardcore than Skyrim was a blatant lie if you've played The Witcher 2.
>>696301 IDK man I've played several open world games that are fun. I think you're just being overly negative about it. There's bad open world and good open world, in my book, a bad open world is barren and doesn't make the traversal fun, an okay open world will have stuff to explore and do and at least try to make travel fun, and an excellent open world game will have much to discover in said world and make traversal of said world fun in some way, either through the joy of figuring out how to make it efficient like TES3:Morrowind does or make actually going fast a skill in itself like how some games do. >>696303 It's been ages since I played TW3 (2017-2018 I think) and most of this post is accurate. Having played a lot of RPGs over the years I'd say TW3 is okay, at least, but not the second coming of christ and savior of PC gaming like some make it out to me. And some moments from that game still stick with me, like Yennerf's personal quest. I think you're wrong about the Quen point though as someone who specced into it you can use it as a counter eventually once you get the sphere-shield upgrade, as detonating it at the right time staggers enemies. Everything else is indeed spot on though, as my inventory being constantly filled with food that I'd use over actual healing mixes and shit would show.
>>696245 Stealth is boring anyways. Action and fighting all the time are what games should always be about. I the game has a stealth system, just don't use it. It is more fun to just go killing all the enemies.
>>696248 Still a great game and the only good game of it's decade.
>>696303 It is supposed to be mostly an rpg, you aren’t meant to play it to brag about how quickly you finished it or how good you are at killing some monster. You are supposed to take it slow and enjoy the wonderful atmosphere and good music, immersing yourself in the world. >>The writers thinks everyone saying "fuck" and "shit" is relatable and humorous in a medieval setting where you would be scolded for doing so This is from the books not writers on the game.
>>696316 If you honestly believe that Yoko Taro's total slop is anything but a slightly above average title let alone "the only good game of it's decade" then you are just outing yourself as a tasteless redditor.
>>696303 >Overall, the game is very mediocre and the hype for it, and CDPR lying about how it was going to be far more hardcore than Skyrim was a blatant lie if you've played The Witcher 2. That was known by anyone with a brain since day 1 announcement. Only normalfags fell for the lies and the (((hype))) cancer.
>>696316 The only reason you think it’s a good game is because of 2B’s ass.
>>696312 Even the "funniest" things to do in a not-shitty open world game are still boring and surpassed by the actual fun from even mediocre linear games.
>>696312 >I think you're wrong about the Quen point though as someone who specced into it you can use it as a counter eventually once you get the sphere-shield upgrade, as detonating it at the right time staggers enemies I'm aware of this and this is kinda of what I meant, but I forgot to go into more detail of how broken quen is. It has also been a while since I lasted played it, but I still remember most of the things I liked and disliked about it. >>696318 >It is supposed to be mostly an rpg That's not an excuse. RPGs shouldn't be clunky and bland. >you aren’t meant to play it to brag about how quickly you finished it or how good you are at killing some monster. Are you shit-posting or did you somehow find your way here from plebbit? >You are supposed to take it slow and enjoy the wonderful atmosphere and good music, immersing yourself in the world. First you say the game is an rpg, and now it's a sight-seeing emulator. And it's hard to immerse yourself in the world, if there aspects of the game that are clearly broken and takes you away from that. Important Items that are vital for killing being almost useless, because you can just master slashing and dodging is not immersive and makes it a very faulty rpg. Either you didn't play the game, are too simple-minded to understand bad design, or pretending to be retarded for attention. The Witcher 3 is still a game, not a cinematic experience.
>>696320 >muh plebbitor meme Projecting? Yoko Taro made the best game of that decade, yes. no amount of revisionism will change that. >>696325 That too. Nothing wrong with that. Sex sells. Deal with it. The game has amazing combat system, 2 extra gameplay styles, one being very good shoot 'em up sections and the other being some nice Metroidvania platforming sessions. The history is a masterpiece that managed to do what hacks like Kojimbo only dreamed of (implementing a actually good artistic vision into the gameplay in a way that also makes it fun and engaging to play it). You sound like one of the sore fat women (or a faggot) who are perpetually angry due to 2B having a perfect beauty that is unachievable in real life.
>>696329 I was half shitposting. Yes I agree the combat is pretty boring, but I do not play it for the challenge, I simply like the story and music, etc. All games have flaws.
>>696334 Why don't you tell me why it's the best game of the decade or counter any points I've made instead of parroting the same opinion over and over?
>>696248 >Purposely insert anti-player design choices and feature into your game Yes, Yoko Taro specifically does that and always has since his first games. You walk into a Yoko Taro game knowing what you're getting into. He at least FOCUSES on fucking the player over and playing design tricks to wear you down intentionally. That's objectively not bad design, that's intended. The thread is more about incompetence then intentional malice. You don't have to enjoy it, but it is being shit on purpose. As an example, let's go over Drakengard. >Characters are completely irredeemable human beings personally who are only banding together to stop the apocalyse >The main character commits actual genocide multiple times >The gameplay is repetitive in a sick parody of Dynasty Warriors to pound in the idea of how the "hero" thinks >The music is intentionally grinding, using samples from classical music in a complete parody of it (From the New World, Rite of Spring, specifically pieces that are considered cliche) >The more you play the game over, the worse the game's story gets in regards to atrocities committed, events in general, the fate of the protagonists becomes bleaker. >The art design is washed out and desaturated brown and grey The entire game is fucking with the player. All of it is intentional. Designed as it was supposed to be. As bad and hateful towards the player. So, naturally, the game has it's own fans, because no one dared to do this. It is, in a way, provocative art. And frankly I wouldn't say that getting an intended reaction is bad design. In fact, it's excellent design. Design is about getting the intended reaction, it's objective. But if you dislike it, that's well within your right. Because it does kinda suck.
>>696340 I played Drakengard and the first Nier as well, you don't need to tell me this. I am just not a fan of auteur game directors like Taro, Suda or Kojima who've built cults of personalities around themselves while offering differing narratives from the norm at the expense of fun.
>>696301 Technically speaking Terraria has an open world and it is very fun. It's still strongly linearly gated though via boss progression and the key upgrade path so in that sense it's not open world at all.
>>696346 I like both, not because of the people behind it, but only because of interest and intent. I do creative work so it's useful to see concepts outside of simple fun.
>>696352 I don't dislike these games because of the people behind them but the way that their creativity gets in the way of offering an entertaining videogame. I don't want to play an art piece. >I do creative work wew we have a game designer?
>>696248 You could have at least mentioned the absolutely stupid leveling mechanic that removes any difficulty in the action gameplay.
>>696312 >but not the second coming of christ and savior of PC gaming like some make it out to me Ironic considering it was literally dumbed down for the Pisspoor and the Xboner. 8chan was also filled with inronic GOGshills that pretended like CDProjekt could do not wrong spouting that fucking sentiment. If it was that bad on 8chan I can't even imagine how bad it was everywhere else. What's even funnier is that Witcher 3 was what kickstarted CDProjekt to mainstream normalfag land and their next game was fucking terrible and filled with Muttmericans. It was that bad on 8chan
>>696432 Are you an ausneet? If so, where did all the aussies go? i miss your shitposting.
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>>696433 No, I do miss /int/ dearly however >If so, where did all the aussies go? Check out endchan cunt
>>696340 Shit game design is what it is regardless of competence or intent. Making trash on purpose has no merit. Video games are activity, not art.
>>696303 The series never had good gameplay (except maybe gwent), the third game is the best in that regard.
>>696301 I think you can have an open world game that is big enough to have a lot of content and scenery, without becoming Ubisoft levels of open nothing. Gothic 1 and 2 come to mind, as the area is big enough to explore and discover lots of stuff, while still being small enough so it doesn't take you long to go on foot from one corner of the map to the other. Games like GTA and it's clones or Spiderman also benefit from the open world nature, but mostly from a compact city, rather than open fields. In my opinion one of the few types of games that really need those huge open worlds are space games, as space is mostly empty, but the last game like that that I played was Freelancer and that was almost 15 years ago. >>696637 I really enjoyed the idea, rather than the execution of the combat from the first game. The fact that you could choose what weapon or combat style to use in each encounter, based on the opponents, made it more tactical, and I was severely disappointing when they dropped it in Witcher 2, and I assume 3 as well.
>>696633 Everything creative is art, whether you like it or not. Instead of arguing semantics, just call it a shit game and be done.
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All Shenmue games. Extremely overrated walking simulators with very little to do outside of walking and talking. The fighting system borrowed from Virtua Fighter (which is already extremely flawed and tedious) gets even worse with the rushed implementation of mob fighting and all over the place hit boxes that end up making button mashing be the best option to win almost all the major battles in the game. The other "action" segments are all QTE. It is objectively better to just play the old Sega arcade games that are available as bonuses on the first Shenmue than it is to play any of the 3 mainline games. I'm glad that Shenmue 3 in it's complete failure cemented even in the minds of normalfags that Yu Suzuki is a hack that does not deserve the praise he got from journos.
Spore >Fun first stage, but nothing actually evolves around you >Repetitive second stage and nothing evolves around you >Awful strategy segment with 0 iq strategy >Fun sandbox space stage, but it's nit fun being the only fleet in your game >Creativity over gameplay >Dropped stages that could've been added as expansions and they would've been if it wasn't for EA >more spin off then expansions. >Expansions add nothing worth of vallue.
>>696643 His reputation mostly comes from being the first to do that sort of "cinematic" style game but it's really clear his game design philosophy is absolute dog shit and belongs in the past.
>>696650 Oh yeah I've wanted to post this.
>>696248 99% of platinum's combat mechanics are completely wasted in Automata. Juggling, weapon types, there is no use for them save for the cosmetic appeal. Not to mention that the turret autoaims, which means 2 extra buttons pressed down the whole time without you actually deciding anything. Meanwhile in the much rougher original Nier, gameplay isn't as smooth but is also far reacher. Enemies are incredibly fast and tough, so you actually need to disable them. Aiming is manual, so you're actually doing something.
>>696639 >Everything creative is art, whether you like it or not. Everything creative is creation. Games are forms of activity that contain art, not the other way around. Important distinction. My point is that creative works with different degrees of end user engagement should be held to different standards. It's not rocket science. I don't like modern art faggots who smear their shit on the canvas, but at least they're not asking the viewers to touch it.
>>696340 >The entire game is fucking with the player. All of it is intentional. You're still a kid reeking of gamejourno milk. You conflated A. edgy, B. metanarrative and C. faulty technical aspects because you found them all together in Drakengard. You stupid, stupid teen. No one who played Drakengard 3 enjoyed the single digits fps drops. The ennui from being overpowered against cannon fodder is self evident and very on the nose, since they're screaming pathetic one liners to band up against you: but you're not actually invincible on the higher difficulties, so that works against it (all the while bombastic music plays, so much for that ennui). As for the rest, it's just an edgy script with a few metanarrative tricks. More proof that gamers are so ignorant that any shade of intellect will stop them in awe, but first you have to jump through hoops in order to reach them: but when you do, they're clay.
>>696665 >Games are forms of activity that contain They're forms of entertainment, aka toys. One can build some pretty classy and magnificient toys, just that. Let's talk about american gamers and the way they inflated their ego twice, leading directly to our situation with the press. People used to play Ridge Racer and FIFA without much pretention: hell, even Thief and Deus Ex were GREAT GAMES and nothing else. But then Bioshock came, and with it all that Ayn Rand crap (...who? t. the whole fucking world). Suddenly americans were scrambling to get more examples of "games as art", even reaching into INNOCENT japanese gaming which never had these aspirations: Shadow of the Colossus was paraded as the primary evidence that gaming was art... without ever wanting to be such. It just wanted to be a great, fun craft with no strings attached. That moment in history was directly responsible for the making of the gaming press that eventually attacked gamers. Because, the journos said, the high ideals taught in game theory classes and publications was much more important than fun. But then came the 2nd time, yanks sought to boost their ego. Right here: in response to the aforementioned attack by journos, masturbation enthusiasts in imageboards popularized the myth that gamers were actually high grade conneisseurs of their hobby, that the "real art" was still there but differently. As you can see, it's just a variant of the Bioshock position, just purported by a different faction. And it is still crap: gamers are still shit, now like 10 years and 20 years ago. You don't get balanced individuals, from someone who builds his entire identity from a stupid hobby: all your celebs are scary scarecrows of a man, or dizzy whores that simply you don't wanna be. They are the ugly shadow of what a person would be, if you cut out the important parts. So there's that: treat games like toys; if you strongly feel like they should be considered like more, realize that's your cue for the self-realization that you're getting too old for this shit. Graduate from toys and leave the toys room behind: you can still come back from time to time, but stop fucking living there like it's the entire horizon of your existence.
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>>696665 >My point is that creative works with different degrees of end user engagement should be held to different standards Could you please explain at what standards would a movie, book, song and game would be held to, since they all involve different degrees of user engagement. Also does that mean that a movie is held at a different standard than a song, because a movie requires two of your senses, whereas a song only requires one? By that logic, would a book and a silent movie with no music be held at the same standard, since they only require sight? In my opinion if there are two things that can be considered as an art form and are unique to games, would be level crafting and the gameplay itself, sadly these things haven't been studied all that much, since everyone was too busy to copy movies and books in their game. If I were to give an example of the art of level design, as simple as it is, it would be the first level in Super Mario Brothers. To keep a long story short, the pipes are there to make sure the player understands how jumping works, in a relatively safe environment, before attempting the jumps over gaps that can kill you. As for the parts I marked, the first one, again acts as a way to make sure the player knows how to jump over such an "obstacle", before attempting to do the real deal. This is all done without a tutorial or messages on screen, or a voice narrating it to you, and even if one were not to read the manual, there were so few buttons on the NES controller, that one could understand how the game works in probably less than a minute. This is the art of level design.
>>696669 The act of toy-making is an art form, the same way beer crafting or tea brewing are considered forms of art. It's not about having some deep meaning, but the mastery of the craft. The japanese even considered the act of serving and drinking tea an art form(basically consuming something is art), as such even playing with toys and games could become an art form. sage for double posting
>>696670 Art means technique. A well crafted item shows all the technique of its artesan, so it's a piece of art. Starting from 2D and 3D depictions, aka painting and sculpture. But you don't get to confuse the artesan and the user. The average drooling retard in this place not only can't get, but doesn't get to see any of that creative process... despite their NOT SO HIDDEN intention of sharing part of the merit. Because let's admit it, those who seek to regard games as art, really like the idea of being considered art experts. Without studying hard over ancient and contemporary art, but just enjoying their toys. But they don't and they can't. Toys can be works of hard; but those who use them will always be just children.
>>696672 So do you agree that a video game is a piece of art, created by craftsmen and artesans, in this case game developers, but that the act of playing or consuming it is not art? Sure playing a game is not usually an art, the same way watching a movie is not art or listening to a song is not art, but that doesn't mean that movies or music are not pieces of art. Even then, I think there can be an art form in playing games, two examples would be the people who make those 300 combo compilations for Devil May Cry(showing their mastery at the game), and as controversial as this may seem, speed-running is an art form, as it shows the mastery of the game. As such even consuming a game can become an art form, the same way the japanese consider the act of tea drinking an art form.
>>696339 I literally did. It is in the very post you are quoting. >The game has amazing combat system, 2 extra gameplay styles, one being very good shoot 'em up sections and the other being some nice Metroidvania platforming sessions >The story is a masterpiece that managed to do what hacks like Kojimbo only dreamed of (implementing a actually good artistic vision into the gameplay in a way that also makes it fun and engaging to play it). Nier Automata is one of the best games ever made in the whole industry.
>>696666 checking those quads
>>696669 Ridge Racer is art, and it's better art than Bioshock. People who talk about "art" are frequently the people who understand it the least. Also, if you have no idea who Ayn Rand is, you're a retard.
>>696677 >>The game has amazing combat system Why is it amazing? >>696677 >>The story is a masterpiece Why is it a masterpiece?
>>696986 Why don't you go play it anon?
>>696989 I literally did but I want this buffoon who must be baiting to go in-depth as to why he thinks these arguments he is spouting like a buzzword-loving chucklefuck.
>>696990 Maybe you should go into why it's bad yourself instead of baiting people so you can shit on works they like and feel like some smug contrarian does Especially since those kinds of people refuse to talk about works they actually like, or compare games with it for reference to a work that's actually good (since any chucklefuck can easily say a game is bad by looking at criticisms and overblowing them to the extreme)
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>>696208 >silenced revolvers
>>697017 Silencers don't exist, suppressors do and they do exist for revolvers.
>>697022 Arent supressors for revolvers very rare and only work for a couple of models like the nagant?
>>697017 It's not impossible, but good luck getting these chucklefucks to do it right. >>696986 The story is simple "we're fighting for the survival of humanity, but humanity is already dead. WHAT A TWEEST!" It's the presentation that's good. The voice actors did a good job in their roles, the music is fittingly depressing and lonely, the characters are well written for the setting and their motivations fit their actions. There's a big difference between story and presentation.
>>697026 Yes, but they still exist, and considering this is da futurez and a videogame, why not? It's certainly not what makes the game a big pile of shit.
>>697028 I see but it still didn't click with me, I hated every second of it. I went in expecting Bayo/MGR tier gameplay and got something half-baked instead.
>>697029 No i was just asking, i remember in silent storm you could only silence the nagant preciesely because revolvers are a bitch to supress.
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>>697032 I mean, the muzzle flash is easy to suppress, the issue is suppressing noise when the whole point of a revolver is having an open cylinder. You'd need a revolver with a cylinder that closes perfectly around the barrel and ammo that perfectly fills the cylinder chambers. The only other way to do that would be to enclose the cylinder completely, but at that point, why even have a revolver?
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>>697042 The russians did solve them with the nagant having a rubber part between the cilinder and the barrel (wich was also extended backwards). But yeah you need to go out of your way to solve that very specific problem.
>>696346 But the Drakengard and Nier games are fun. That is the point. >I am just not a fan of auteur game directors like Taro You aren't. Others are. That is irrelevant to the quality of their games.
>>696432 >8chan was also filled with inronic GOGshills that pretended like CDProjekt could do not wrong spouting that fucking sentiment. We had literal (((marketeers))) for CDPR here. Remember the marketing phrase "I will still buy Cyberpunk 2077" that was spammed every single time t hat people pointed how Trannypunk was confirmed to be shit. They were also in boards of other languages too, spamming the same garbage. Whenever you see someone defending a yet-to-be released game, assume that it is a paid shill. 99% of the time, it is.
>>696432 >What's even funnier is that Witcher 3 was what kickstarted CDProjekt to mainstream normalfag land and their next game was fucking terrible and filled with Muttmericans. Proving once again that their goal is to attain mass appeal so they can spread marxist propaganda to normalfags.
>>697231 The only time it gets grating is when they get up their own ass like Suda, to the point it sometimes feels like he genuinely hates his audience.
>>696633 The designs are good though. And fun to play. You don't like them. Other people like them. They aren't bad just because you don't like them.
>>696650 THAT is one example of artistic vision making the game become bad and not fun to play. But there were all sorts of interference from EA. I recall the developers saying that one of EA's higher ups wanted to add sneakers to the amoeba characters, because he thought that it was fun. And the same guy wanted the game to be for kids, and not based on anything scientific with the whole evolutionary cycle. He just wanted "fun" amoebas with sneakers and wanted it to be shipped that way.
>>696653 Made worse by the fact that he himself admitted to not liking to play video games and just liking to tamper with hardware and direct people to work with software.
>>697250 >He just wanted "fun" amoebas with sneakers and wanted it to be shipped that way. Excuse me what? Was he high or something?
>>697231 >But the Drakengard and Nier games are fun <Drakengard <fun
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Elden Ring Since this can be a sensitive topic, even on this board, before I list the negatives, I will give it a score, just so that (You) know what my opinion of the game is. From a scale of 1(horrible) to 10(masterpiece) with a 5 being average, I would give it a 7.5, meaning it's a good game. It's not great, it's not excellent, it's not average, it's just a good game. It has good stuff, and also some bad stuff, but since this is the negative design thread, I will focus on the negative stuff. With that out of the way, let's list the negative design decisions: >The open world nature of the game works against the spawning enemy at bonfire mechanic from the previous Souls games Think of the previous Souls games, more or less from one bonfire to another, you would pass through a somewhat linear series of rooms(hidden by good game design), which had all sorts of obstacles such as traps and enemies, and if you died somewhere in between, then you had to redo the challenge from scratch. The challenge was reaching the next bonfire alive. In Elden Ring, at least in the open section, I would like to present the second picture, especially the part that is circled. This is the starting map, and most players will first reach the church, go through the forest, and they can either go through the ruins or immediately go to one of the two bonfires next to it. Technically there is no obstacle with that ruin, as once you existed the forest, and it's daytime, it would be much faster to reach the bonfire directly from the forest and avoid combat, instead of going through that ruin and risk getting killed by the enemies. Now there is a reason why you would want to go there, as there is loot, a piece of the world map and even an ash of war, so there are rewards for risking your life to get it, and it makes sense for enemies to respawn if you failed to clear out the entire camp. So my question is, if after you have defeated all the enemies and got all the loot, what is the purpose of them respawning after that? They are not an obstacle to reach the next bonfire(even without teleportation), and there is nothing to incentivise you to go back and kill them, unless you want to grind, which I think it would be a bad game design. Honestly I would have done it like Nioh's youkai realms, in which when you clear them the the yokai will stop spawning. If they really wanted both respawning enemies and open world, then I would have made it like Dragon's Dogma, in which the entire world, is actually a series of cleverly disguised tunnels, so you are "forced" to go through those ruins with enemies in them, before reaching the next bonfire. Another bad thing of the respawning system, is how fake the world feels like. To the east of the area I marked on the map, there is a convoy, that always resets whenever you use a bonfire. It doesn't matter what time of day it is, if you use a bonfire, they reset. I even followed it to see what it would do, and it will just stop in the area I marked. If I go and kill everyone in the convoy, as well as the giants, get all the loot, the convoy will still reset. It just feels fake. On one hand, some things that you can do in the game, like stopping a convoy, has so no impact on the world, as it resets with the bonfire, but on the other you can progress through an NPC's storyline, and even change some stuff(like that castle ,that you clear from bandits, but then gets infested by goblins) so it's not like the game's timeline isn't progressing, it's just that it's not consistent. >Stealth is bare bones I assume it's a holdover from Sekiro, yet enemies do not react to seeing their dead comrades, doing a "sneak attack" that instantly kills an enemy, will still alert the others, there are too few enemies that have the role of "alert others", and there is no clear indication on how close an enemy is to detect(I am not even sure if it's based on only sight, or if sound can alert them as well). I think they should either have expanded on it. or simply dropped it entirely, and considering how the game is, I think they should have just dropped it. Lastly, it's not like you needed a stealth button to sneak past enemies in the previous games, as you could sneak or run past enemies in Dark Souls 1 as well, just by running and timing yourself with enemy patrols. >Camera does not zoom out when fighting giant enemies, especially on foot There were a few boss fights, that were giant but also placed in tiny rooms, and I would really have wished to have the camera zoom out, so that I can know what attack it's going to do, while I am slashing at their toe. Especially with the Ulcerated Tree Spirit boss fight, but even the dragons, I sometimes wish the camera would zoom out a bit, or at least give the option to do so. >Can't use horse during invasions I guess this is just an engine limitation, and the way they programmed the horse was so jank, that trying to allow it in multiplayewr would have broken the game. Even if that is true, I still consider it a negative, even if I barely touched the PVP, I just think it would have been great to have jousting as a form of PVP I will not critique the game for allowing you to go to places where you are under leveled and get killed, or even allowing you to get lost and not know where to go, or even getting overpowered equipment and easily killing the low level opponents with it, or even the fact that you "need" a guide to properly do all the content, as there are plenty of other "classic, good" games that do this type of bullshit, and /v/ likes them such as Might and Magic IV, V, VI, Gothic 1 & 2, Morrowind, and from the Japanese side, it would be Oriental Blue : Ao no Tengai and Saga Frontier 2.
>>696665 Nah dude. Allowing those retards to do what they want is wrong. Period.
>>696986 Because of everything that it has. Including the gameplay, story, presentation and sex appeal. Nier Automata is better than any for of "art" that you so desperately try (and fail) to validate.
>all these perfectly "natural" and "organic" posts one after another from different IPs that are (1) and done, yet post in the same style
>>697245 And still is done in a engaging way. Every whining that I ever read about Drakengar always come from "people" too used to pedowood's cancer storytelling, that can't see that there are other ways to tell a story, and that not all stories have heroes or good people and that still makes them good stories.
>>697270 Everyone should just stop talking about things that you don't like, right?
>>697259 No. He is just a manchild. Anons had the archive and prints of the whole interview by one of the developers. The EA guy basically saw the amorphous amoebas and thought that they would be great as child's toys, so he wanted the game to be only about the amoeba phase, but with all of them having sneakers and turned into a group of "funny friends". He probably wanted a toy line based on it too, from the way the developer describes the whole situation.
>>697260 Yes, they are. YOU may not like them, but they are fun games.
>>697270 Totally organic(tm)
>>697264 I think that Elden Ring is another example of why open world should not be pursued when making games. Just make a set goal with acts (or phases, or areas) that get unlocked as you progress through the main challenges, and then put some side quests for people to try to find and complete, and be done with it. Like all good games did before. A game does not need a open world in order to be fun to play, and as we saw many times by now, often the open world actually ruins part of the game, or all of it.
>>697285 It is the same spammer that shows up in all active threads and starts to complain about people discussing what he does not want to be discussed. Watch as some posts now get deleted because the spammer will report those as spam or derail.
>>697269 >>697268 >>697267 >>697266 >ip hopping this hard
>>697279 How did he get so far up in EA?
>>697264 The enemies exist to be fought. You don't HAVE to fight them, that is the point of giving players options, you could've just stealthily looted the area or made suicide runs to get those items or drawn them away then looped back on your horse but your idea that it would be better if they only existed until you looted the area and never again is...dumb, seriously are you autistic? Why would anyone want the world to be MORE empty? As for stealth, stealth in games is never done well and if it was most people would not choose to engage in it. You bring up sight and sound but many of the more bestial enemies should be able to smell you, since you probably smell different than their usual surroundings. Hell, even humans can notice a foreign smell when the conditions are right. The fact of the matter is, your idea of what good stealth gameplay looks like is mostly based on games that were already doing it wrong so complaining that this game is not putting in the same effort is somewhat ignorant. Additionally, this game's focus is on the combat so putting more effort into a system that removes interaction with the main system is just poor design. The option should be there, but shouldn't be so fleshed out as to detract from other elements. I agree that many of the enemy types that still seemed to retain some cognition should've reacted to enemy corpses, hell having the enemies that look like scavengers aggro when you create corpses would've been really nice, but mainly because it would lessen the viability of stealth gameplay. Sneaking should let you choose your angle of attack, but it should not remove the need to attack. The camera definitely needs work, it should be able to clip through walls instead of sliding along them so that backing up against an object doesn't cause you to lose sight of what your character is locked on to. That being said, not being able to completely see what a large creature is doing is part and parcel of fighting an enemy whose torso alone would completely fill your field of vision. It makes your complaint seems as silly as saying that the camera should zoom in on enemies that are far away so that you can see what they're doing. That being said, having something (an item, spell, etc.) give that zoomed out effect wouldn't be a bad idea, so long as it did it all the time making it situationally useful. While I agree that the loss of horseback duels is disappointing, I have a feeling that the main issue is that the open world causes invaders to lose a lot of their threat so taking your horse away was an incentive to hunt down an invader rather than simply continuing along with there being a pretty good chance you wouldn't run into each other. A better option would've been to have it be so that while an invader was in your world nobody could use flasks except for wondrous physicks. Lastly, I'll say that your opening preamble and concluding paragraph reveal you to be a basic bitch nigger who feels put upon having to "tow the /v/ party line". You do not belong here. You have the ability to say whatever you want here and you've chosen, out of fear of mean internet words, to censor yourself and then complain about it. You obviously don't like the things that other people like here, and you don't like the people here, yet you continue to remain here and attempt to turn it over time into the same kind of place that stifles online discussion like the kind you sneeringly engage in here. I am not in agreement with the administration that we should open our doors to all comers, and I oppose the intellectual immigrant who uses the water that has been offered to slake their thirst to spit in the hand they've profited by. I can't make you leave, but I'll be keeping an eye out for your posts and I'll make sure they get the attention they deserve from the right parties.
>>697296 And everything said was right, nonetheless. >>697299 I don't know, because I don't remember who was the developer talking who was he talking about. Maybe asking other anons about it will bring the screen caps and the archive. It was basically the main developer recalling about one of the big EA representatives coming into his office and suggesting the dumb changes. I specifically recall the sneaker retardation due to how idiotic and out-of-touch that was. The developer presented the whole idea of basing the game on actual evolutionary studies and trying to make that work as gameplay elements, only for the EA retard to say "those things should have sneakers on them". I will not be surprised if the EA retard was a jew. They are the ones with infantile minds that can never grasp actual scientific studies or science fiction. they want to infantilize everything.
>>697301 >your idea that it would be better if they only existed until you looted the area and never again is...dumb, seriously are you autistic? Why would anyone want the world to be MORE empty? I saw some people making remarks like the anon you quoted all the way back when Shenmue was new. It always sounded like those autistic children complaining about "why Mario doesn't use his hand to hold onto the edge of a cliff?" They never grasp the idea that gameplay is to be fun and challenging. Not to represent reality. A game having limitations to what the player can do is what makes it a game. A challenge. And when done right, it is what makes the game fun. Be it stealth or any other characteristic, it should only exist if it is fun to play that way. If it isn't, it should not exist. Variety doesn't make a game automatically good or fun. Some of the funniest classic games that are still liked and played today are very limited and give very few options for the player to play them, but all the few options are fun to try and that is what makes those games be good games.
>>697313 I feel variety is necessary in an RPG since the whole point is that there are multiple roles/classes/methods you can approach the game's challenges from but your blurb does works as a pretty good explanation for why a lot of open world games are unenjoyable. The developers included all of the elements of an open world without ever making them fun, I remember specifically people complaining that you don't have much reason aimlessly explore in BotW because at best you'll find a shrine and the rewards for shrines were lackluster and temporary if they were wieldables. That being said, Near a Tomato is still pretty shit. The combat is some of the worst that Platinum has ever done and the open world is pretty small and still manages to mostly pointless. The game looked nice but that was all it really had going for it. Playing a game for the story is like eating soup for the spoon.
>>697286 >A game does not need a open world in order to be fun to play That is true, and at the same time, an open world game can be fun to play, and furthermore some games do benefit from being open world. I would argue that games such as GTA do benefit from being open world, and I couldn't imagine games such as Gothic 1 or 2 being better if they were a series of linear levels such as Rune or Severance. Same with Fallout New Vegas, I think it benefits from it's open world nature. Now did Elden Ring benefit from putting the Souls formula in an open world? Honestly I am not sure, all I can say is that it could have been done better. >>697301 >The enemies exist to be fought. I believe enemies in games are meant to be obstacles, that you can either defeat or skip past them. In a game like Dark Souls, the enemies were part of the obstacles you needed to overcome in order to reach the next checkpoint/bonfire, but in the open world section of Elden Ring, they are no longer an obstacle stopping you from reaching the next checkpoint, but more of an obstacle to reaching a treasure chest. I admit that not every section is like this, and there are definitely chock points were you can't walk around or run with the horse, I am just talking about examples such as the one illustrated in the map I posted. As I said, if they really wanted to keep the respawning element, then I would have made the world more like in Dragon's Dogma, a series of cleverly disguised tunnels with plenty of choke points, and limited fast travel. otherwise I see no reason for the enemies to respawn in an area that I already completely cleared, and is not some sort of chock point I have to pass through. If you were to argue that respawning enemies is mandatory to a Souls-like game, I disagree as Nioh's youkai realms showed you can have areas that once cleared do not respawn enemies, and even Dark Souls 2 had limited respawns. I am not saying that every enemies have to stop respawning after you defeat them, only in certain areas, just like with the youkai realms in Nioh. Hell even Elden Ring, had a castle, that once cleared stopped respawning the bandits, until you moved forward with an NPC's quest, and then it was filled with goblins, so even ER attampted this in an area, at least temporarily. >Why would anyone want the world to be MORE empty? Why not? At least my actions will have actual in game consequences. I like the idea that I could go into a forest, in Gothic 1, and massacre the entire population, and not worry about getting attacked again, or even clearing an entire city. I also enjoy that in Fallout New Vegas, it at least created the illusion that my gameplay action had an impact on the world. Again, I understand why it was used the way it was used in Demon and Dark Souls, all I am saying is that it doesn't fit the open world of Elden Ring, with exceptions such as legacy dungeons. >stealth in games is never done well and if it was most people would not choose to engage in it I still think the option should be there, especially if it's well designed and fits with the game loop. It's like saying that games shouldn't have a morality system, even if done well, because most people choose the good options. >Additionally, this game's focus is on the combat so putting more effort into a system that removes interaction with the main system is just poor design. It's why I said that it was better to just drop it off entirely, instead of giving us this half-baked mechanic. As for my last paragraph, I admit I worded it badly, and deserve to be bullied for it. What I meant to say, and should have formulated it better, is that while I had seen these complaints in the previous Elden Ring threads, things like "you can easily end up in areas where enemies are above you level", or "you need a wiki to know how to get to X", I had actually defended them as parts of the genre(it's why I gave those examples of games that are considered goo), and not bad gameplay design. As for my openign paragraph, again it was from my experience in the Elden Ring threads, if I shat on the game I would get called a casual, and if I defended it I would get called a fromdrone. It's not that getting called these things hurt me, it's that they impede discussion, and I want to avoid that so that the discussion can focus on what is essential. Sadly this might have backfired. >>697313 I understand why Mario can't grab ledges, and that the games were designed around this, same way there are games such as Ninja Gaiden on the NES in which you can grab ledges and the game was designed around it. What I am saying is that there are reasons why enemy respawning works in Dark Souls 1, but doesn't work as well in Elden Ring, especially in the open world areas, and they should either have changed the way the open world was designed, maybe to be more like Dragon's Dogma, or have it so not every enemy respawns, same way there are minibosses in Elden Ring that do not respawn after getting defeated.
>>697335 >I understand why Mario can't grab ledges I sorta remember at least one mario game where there is "some" interaction with ledges: Mario doesn't really grab and pull up or anything, but you automagically succeed in making a jump that would have been just a little bit too far.
>>697267 >stop telling me to idolize my toys >you're a soy and a leftist and I'm super intellect and retarded and arty and videogames are superior Shut up kid. You're all deviants, by any old definition of normality. Kudos for avoiding the faggots' trap, but you still fell for another. No man can stay sane for very long, living a lonely recluse life where the best he can think of is videogames. Look at Japan. They fucking milk otakus for all their worth: merchandise is fucking pricey, and there's huge competition among them, too. And eventually they're all swept away, hush hush, once they go broke and suicide. Because this is rat poison. And men who fail to grow up will kill themselves just like trannies.
>>697348 Ok /pol/tard.
>>697348 anon, your smug superiority complex is completely wasted here; you replied to luciano
>>696976 >if you have no idea who Ayn Rand is, you're a retard No, anon, it means he's blessed for not knowing a dabbler and jewish con-artist.
>>697353 Nah, if you don't know your enemy, you're just ignorant, not blessed
>>697358 >you have to know all jews to know them at all
>>697353 >not knowing a major one who has influenced contemporary philosophy and economics >nujak I see I'm just talking with a retard, carry on
>>697364 >thinks a dilettante who understands zilch about half the philosophers she criticizes is relevant Yeah, anon, I can see that you're talking with yourself.
>>697366 Relevance has absolutely nothing to do with a person's ability/knowledge and everything to do with their social status. Ayn Rand is relevant regardless of whether or not she's a hack because people still hang onto her words as gospel, proliferating her views and thrusting her into the zeitgeist.
>>697366 see >>697369 hell the mere fact that she is still talked about in a video game thread on an obscure imageboard is one small proof of her continued relevance, she should have been a totally forgotten historical footnote otherwise if she was not relevant.
>>697363 Go back to cuckchan, Nujak poster
>>696316 >>696334 >>696677 >>696989 >>697269 >>697311 Why is this shill not banned yet?
>>697397 Whoa there buddy watch it you're in the last bastion of free speech in the world
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>>697397 1. He's not shitting on Loli 2. He's not shitting on Mark or his insecurities 3. He's not derailing the thread 4. He's not getting paid to shill, similar to steam deck shills who also do it for free 5. He's not showing signs of being a herdnigger, goon, kiwifart, cuckchanner or any undesirable 6. He's talking about vidya 7. He's not going on autistic tangents 8. He's not making the thread political 9. He's not trying to cater to shitposters 10. He's not getting (You) rationed Anything else?
>>697397 Screeching for random bans, something is wrong with you.
>>697369 >everything to do with their social status There's a word for that; it's called popularity. I don't care if she's popular; my point is that she's such a crude essayist (certanly not worthy of the title of philosopher) and dilettante that anon is better off not knowing her at all, and is certainly not a retard for not being familiarised with such an irrelevant kike (popular or not).
>>696303 You forgot that exploring the world before doing side-quest or anything on the notice boards literally breaks the game.
>>697466 >I don't like this person's views so I will pretend they functionally do not exist >even though they literally influenced the aspect of culture being discussed here Ostriches would be impressed at how far in the dirt you can stick your head
>>697480 It's not a matter of preference but one of anyone worth their salt not caring about her. I don't like the positivists, but I certainly wouldn't call them irrelevant; I also know, for instance, of mathematicians who are relevant but not necessarily popular like Gauss.
>>697311 Well I'm still honestly suprised that spore could've been worse then now.
>>697466 I knew you would instantly jump to popularity, disregarding the latter half of my post and willfully misinterpreting what I had to say. I didn't mean social status as in popularity, but presence within society. Influential probably would have been more apt, certainly, but you're a fool to think I was discussing popularity. A complete pariah can still be relevant by influencing smaller subsects of society more willing to accept the ideas they espouse or having a body of work so compelling that people must accept it despite hating the author. My point was that Ayn Rand is relevant regardless of what you think of her work because she remains influential even today. There are likely greater thinkers on this fucking board, but they're totally irrelevant because they have no presence. This shit is absolutely neither here nor there, though.
>>696208 >Has stealth but the enemies are bullet sponges (because of the loot system) and none of the enemy groups in the game are designed around stealth That was annoying, I learned luring enemies into the sreet and running them over with a car was more effective than going for stealth headshots with a sniper rilfe, only to take 5% of their hitpoints >Despite having enemies way over your level, you don't get loot that matches their power if you defeat them That's just realistic though, the guys with the most gucci tacticool rifles are the softest faggots >if you don't spec into crafting they're all useless unless you find them at level 50, and they'll quickly get outpaced by shit on the street. It was disappointing to mac out crafting and engineering just to find out I couldn't craft anything better than what common thugs had at higher levels. Crafting is a massive waste of perk points.
>>697042 >the whole point of a revolver is having an open cylinder. who told you that? For many people, he whole point is the mechanical loading mechanism. It's virtually impossible to have a failure to feed in a revolver. For some people the whole point is the spent casings don't eject from the weapon, meaning less evidence to get you arrested. Also some gun ranges don't let you pick up spent brass off the ground, a revolver lets you shoot there and later reload/recycle your own brass.
After watching CyberPunk Edgerunners I wanted to see what the Adam Smasher bossfight looked like in the actual game because the anime made him look so damn cool and threatening and in the actual fucking game it looked like complete and utter dogshit, like actual Skyrim with guns but even worse and more barebones, the nigger just practically stood there and ate bullets then dropped to the ground after 10 seconds. He did not offer ONE bit of resistance at all holy shit. How in the fuck normalfags can enjoy that shit is beyond me. If Japan made CP2077 that fight probably would have been absolutely insane to play. >>697264 <I think they should either have expanded on it. or simply dropped it entirely, and considering how the game is, I think they should have just dropped it >Removing extra content in the game even though the game doesn't primarily focus on that feature, which also takes away playstyles from the millions of players besides you who use it and enjoy it much more than you would. Fuck off dude, eat shit. Thats like removing jumping because you think its pointless. I hate when people say shit like that. Just because you can't find much of a use for it doesn't mean others can't. Just because you don't like a SPECIFIC feature or a playstyle, especially in a ROLE PLAYING GAME doesn't mean it should be even fucking removed. Elden Ring doesn't have to be Splinter Cell or some shit, having a basic stealth mechanic is fine enough to have. I really like how you could also use bows to distract enemies and make them look a specific direction to backstab them, with the hornet ring and the dagger Misericorde, it can be pretty busted, but a peabrain like you of course would have never figured something like that out.
>>698425 Who would have guessed that the company, which tried to ruin their own marketing deal anime, ended up already ruining their game? Next time don't fall for western companies trying to hook you in by paying Japs to market for them.
>>698427 I never fell for it, I'm not that gullible. All I had to do was look at the actual game to realize how shit it still was lmao. Definitely less buggy after two years but fundamentally its still the same boring ass jank and cringe simulator it was back then.
>>698425 >After watching CyberPunk Edgerunners I wanted to see what the Adam Smasher bossfight looked like in the actual game because the anime made him look so damn cool That sums up edgerunners vs the game entirely. Everything in the anime despite being the exact same setting is edgier cooler and hits the cyberpunk vibe 10x better than anything in the game. I realize that it's incredibly stylized compared to the game but just the basic premise of having a streetkid join a cyberpunk group and rise from rookie to veteran cyberpunk is so basic much far more interesting than dickhead keanu reeves makes you 2nd bitch to his story.
>>697017 It's also the only way to use a gun that one shots the enemy in stealth. The DR5-Nova is the only gun that has a headshot multiplier and damage high enough to be exploited by equipping a supressor, which doubles or triples damage in stealth (depending on rarity), and handgun perks are basically min-maxed for stealth and specifically this gun because the rapid fire pistols are absolute shit and are common street trash, the better pistols are smart tech ones that can't be silenced. I feel like this was completely fucking intentional from some dark magic /k/ fag on the team because there is absolutely no fucking way a polish company is this retarded about guns.
>>698425 >After watching CyberPunk Edgerunners I wanted to see what the Adam Smasher bossfight looked like in the actual game because the anime made him look so damn cool and threatening and in the actual fucking game it looked like complete and utter dogshit Anon, have you not been paying attention to all the criticism the game has received these past 2 years? Everything about the game is dull, content that was supposed to be included still has not arrived yet, and it remains to be a broken mess, despite all the 20-40gb patches they've released. But even if you exclude the fact that the game is lacking in terms of things to do, the combat system is shit and they will never fix it. They released the anime now, to promote their shitty game and to get everyone to forget the absolute mess CP2077 was on its launch day. I only feel bad for Mike here. >How in the fuck normalfags can enjoy that shit is beyond me Normalfags love open-world games. Even if it lack depth and is bare-bones.
>>698433 Honestly the suppressor might work on the DR5-Nova. Reason why suppressors generally don't work on revolvers is 'cause the gap inbetween the cylinder and chamber would render the suppressor worthless. Nagant Revolver, however, could adopt and use a suppressor 'cause the cylinder would actually press up against the chamber while the hammer while firing to silence the noise. Judging from the Nova's design, it looks like the cylinder's enclosed so I don't see why it wouldn't work.
>>697397 The game won't stop being amazing just because you don't like it.
>>697332 Nah. Nier's combat is a lot of fun and one of the many reasons to play the game over and over again.
This shit again
>>698849 Are you talking about the huemonkey with his wall of text?
>>698885 Yeah, it got deleted though, he probably got the memo so we should be fine for a while.
>>698636 Anon your entire post was a waste of time. You could have realized I know the deal with CP2077 if you merely read my second post, which you didn't for some reason. You know which game really (eventually) plays like an anime? Risk of Rain 2. Imagine that getting an adaptation.
>>699226 >You could have realized I know the deal with CP2077 Then why is it a surprise to you that the game is shitty and disappointing? By your own post, you've only come to the realization that it is garbage only after watching the anime. OP already covered the main issues and your complaint is that CP2077 is inconsistent with the show.
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>The tutorial never fucking ends >Final level require a new tool never explained to you unless you cheese it WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!?
>>699346 >By your own post, you've only come to the realization that it is garbage only after watching the anime. Anon you are legally mentally retarded. Pic related I'm so sorry. >your complaint is that CP2077 is inconsistent with the show Only the Adam Smasher bossfight, that was literally the only part I was describing in my post holy shit you're dumb.
>>697301 >stealth in games is never done well Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory did it perfectly.
>>699394 >stealth in games is never done well Zoomers here don't know Thief: The Dark Project, clearly.
>>699394 >>699440 Steel manning his position I would assume he means in non stealth focused games.
>>698430 >>698432 >>698425 >>698636 And the worst part is kids think "its a good game now" because you're crashing every 4hrs instead of every 10mins, that they fixed the game shows how much cdpr cares about the game. That having bare minimum gameplay, open world that just another rehash ubisoft filler collectathon, and flashy marketing with "cool NEW aesthetics" (doubt they even played heard of any other cyberpunk work), makes a good game. Its just shows really strong marketing works, otherwise this would be forgotten like saints row
>>699520 I blame fucking No man's sky and the idiots that defend that game because it's totally "Good" now. Fallout 76, cyberpunk, NMS are considered to be "good" because the dev's didn't abandon them after their failed launch's, despite these games having fundamentally mediocre gameplay that can never be fixed by any amount of patches or dlc, it's honestly exasperating every time I hear how NMS is totally a good game now especially from people who are just regurgitating what they hear rather than actually playing the game again (I did, it's still mediocre). Fortunately there does seem to be a decent portion of people still saying not to forgive CDPR but there's a lot of people who are sucking cybeprunk's dick now after edgerunners.
>>699523 I don't even mind the that nms and cyberpunk improved - thats a good thing. The bad thing is wrongly it was promised, how much stuff was supposed to be working day1, and even after improvements it is still what you say it is - a mediocre, perfectly average game. Nowhere close to great genre-defining game it was originally planned or marketed. The terrible launch somehow altered their expectations into a brow beaten wife. Almost makes me feel like how early access games has transformed to a years after release access genre. I feel bad for devs who actually have to release a workable game at launch because they don't have shills defending their game for years.
>>699523 The problem with NMS was entirely their deal with (((Sony))), requiring it to release at a specific date with no delays if they wanted it on playstation, forcing it to be shoved out long before it was done.
>>699528 Dont forget that their office also caught fire and they lost alot.
Remind me why /v/ ever shilled cyberpunk in the first place
>>699529 They decided to cut all communication outside of the studio to finish the rest of the game, to the point that the company email was rerouted to Sean's phone and he proceeded to ignore it.
>>699523 >(I did, it's still mediocre) I also pirated it recently and mediocre is giving it too much credit, and only if you look past the remaining fuckery running around. Between the "hide in your house and shoot through the door because the AI can't target you" combat, or the noclip chickenwalker and dogbot that still mostly can't attack you, character models having seizures on flat areas or bugs like quests forgetting to pay out the rewards for the next 20 or so instances and similar shit, I just have to wonder what the fuck the launch was like if this kind of shit passes for an acceptable improvement after 6 years of patching.
>>699528 The problem with NMS was that it was extremely overambitious, and would have been even for a AAA game studio. And THEN it got hyped to hell on top of that.
>>699533 Hype is easily the worst thing in existence.
>>698433 Overture (which is an even more traditional revolver) does more damage per shot making it better if you're aiming for silenced 1 headshot kills. All revolvers get a better base headshot multiplier than the semi-autos to distinguish them mechanically. I'm also fairly certain with the right perks you can hit 1-hit-kill threshold on regular enemies of your level with the lower capacity (and thus higher damage per shot) semi-autos and you definitely can with certain legendary variants. That being said, the suppressors shouldn't have reduced damage anyway and definitely should not have magically made stealth headshots do much more damage. As before, they wanted to give a thematic mechanical bonus to make them worth using but it is the same design philosophy that plagues the game (and in truth most RPGs), using arbitrary bonuses/penalties to poorly represent how something works instead of just making it function as it is supposed to.
>>696208 I was baffled by how they introduced the police in the game intro and trailers yet none of the presented is in the final game, you just get cops spawning behind you and being completely useless when you drive away from them.
>>699390 >Anon you are legally mentally retarded. No, retard, read your own post here >698425 >After WATCHING CyberPunk Edgerunners I wanted to see what the Adam Smasher bossfight looked like in the actual game >the anime made him look so damn cool and threatening and in the actual fucking game it looked like complete and utter dogshit This is bascially (You) being pikachu shocked that the boss even though OP already covered that combat system is utter garbage and bosses are trash. If you payed attention to any criticism these past years, you would know that the game has been receiving critiques on how Adam ending up looking more like a bitch once you've reached around level 15-30 with legendary gear. If you aren't gullible, then you wouldn't be so surprised that the game did not contain the same presentation as the anime did retard. >Only the Adam Smasher bossfight Again, your post is pointless, because OP already covered this. You're the only retard here. Learn to make posts that actually serve a purpose.
>>697301 >blog post >>697301 >As for stealth, stealth in games is never done well and if it was most people would not choose to engage in it. >I have never played any of the THIEF first person game series We know. >>696208 Cyberpunk 2077 demonstrated just how much like the drug trade games are. >Developer studios are dealers >Game players are addict drug users looking for a fix Like drug addicts, gamers take any amount of abuse to get their gaming high even if the devs (dealers) cut the product and sell a sub-standard product for exorbitant prices. Unfilled promises are ignored and rave reviews are given for dealers that didn't deliver as promised. For instance, notice how many people go on about Cyberpunk 2077 not running on "last gen consoles"? "Last gen consoles" were "NEXT gen consoles" when Cyberpunk 2077 STARTED development. The game should RUN HOT BUTTER SMOOTH on last gen = better than ANY other platform. The fact this is glossed over shows just how deep the rot in the entire industry is. >...ah yes anon, the reason it doesn't run well is.... Irrelevant. The causes are symptomatic of industrial scale rot.
>>699600 Not everyone knows all the details of this shit pile anon, especially random criticisms from years ago now People have been saying shit like how the game has been extensively fixed, maybe it was possible they made the fight less shit, who knows But apparently not
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>Shit company und some shitty anime to market their shit game that's shit bugs or no bugs <It's good now Jesus fucking Christ, kill all weaboos
>>699604 >>699604 >Unfilled promises are ignored and rave reviews are given for dealers that didn't deliver as promised. This man doesn't know about marketing. Let me clear up some common misconceptions. Literally all the shit on youtube and on news sites was bought and paid for through a marketing agency. People you see who are doing "builds" and shit are doing so because the company is trying to recoup it's losses in a massive double down for investors due to their promise of DLC. In fact if we're gonna get a little bit nutty it's become a social experiement to see how far they can push the "we'll patch it" culture. Thing is they're getting false positives because the marketing's double blind. Marketers will make shit up for their customer companies to convince them they're relevant, no matter if they hit the grassroots or not. The stuff they're putting out, like paid influencers and comment bots are what they use to convince companies of success, not actual feedback. Most marketing is absolutely fake and doesn't work outside of letting someone know something exists or hyping people up. When marketing is on damage control they do NOT bother with actually controlling damage, they make it seem like damage is controlled. That's it.
>>699686 This anon gets it. If it is on youtube or on social media, it has been paid for. The game that released as CP 2077, was no tin development for a decade, it was hastily put together a year before release.
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>>699610 >People have been saying shit like how the game has been extensively fixed You can polish a turd but in the end it will still be a turd, a pretty turd but still a turd none the less. Yeah I just wanted to see how the boss fight looked like in the game compared to the anime, which of course I never played the game (because I don't play shit games no way!) so I wouldn't know for myself, but I did not know that it would be THAT painfully lackluster. I heard in a youtube comment that he even has a generic streethug enemy AI, thats how lazily slapped together that bossfight is. Everybody who says the game is now good for some reason has been successfully psy-op'ed by a media in a wholly different entertainment medium made with actual proper direction and fun in mind, and not with a checklist of western tropes and decisions by out of touch investors. Yakuza Like A Dragon had a similar kind of antagonist and for all intents and purposes he absolutely succeeded in his role of being a pants shittingly terrifying and powerful powerhouse of a man. Makes me wonder how a CyberPunk game made in Japan would play like? Because we all know there games tend to all be better even amazing, finished or not, i.e MGSV (one unfinished almost mastepeice). >>699705 It was a similar case with FFXV being in development for only 3 years but the difference with that game was that it actually fucking worked unlike CP2077. FFXV was merely lackluster and half baked because it wasn't done but was still made by people with functional braincells and not by a bunch of chimpanzees strapped in front of office computers. CP2077 and it's irredeemable marketing campaign full of nothing but LIES is one of the main reason why I NEVER trust mainstream western games. If Stalker 2 ends up being good then I'll be pleasantly surprised, if it's shit then that's to be expected
I haven't read the thread. I'm just here to vent. I'm baffled about how many people have forgotten how CDPR fucked each and every single retard that either pre-ordered that shit or bought it on release (or at any point to be frank). All the fake trailers, the cut content, your choices doesn't matter in the story it all leads to the same fucking place, the barren city, the shallow gameplay, the non existent character creation... And on top of that, a SHITFLIX """anime""" with god-awful animation is what has made it possible. I fucking hate this industry and the consumers that have supported all this shit practices for more than 15 years.
>>699714 >MGSV >almost masterpiece You're one retarded gorilla nigger, Anon.
>>699828 You forgot all the Todd tier promises made since in 2011 >Pen and Paper RPG >Translation upgrade >HUD upgrades Shit, I could go on forever normalfags are truly braindead and until all of them fuck off to mobile AAA will continue to stay afloat, even if badly.
>>699829 No doubts about that, anon.
>>699828 Not everyone bothers to pay attention to things they don't care about All those criticisms ultimately amalgamated to "its shit" or "its a broken mess" in the mind of someone whose only casually interested in the subject
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>>699828 I have a personnal theory that there is no talent left in the industry and this is why we only get remasters or extremely generic and copy/pasted games. Diversity hires and women can only get you so far. Normalfags are normalfags because they are easily manipulated retard, couple this with plebbit that is 80% bots and marketers and you can make any shit game a success. The same retards who participated in the uprising against EA because of Battlefront 2 monetization buy Fifa without thinking twice. These people are the true customers now, they buy as an habit so quality isn't even a concern anymore.
>>699686 >>699705 >the decaying stench of marketing has reached bounds far beyond their domain Makes sense. I never could stand the lies coming out of their filthy mouths. It would make sense that companies have devolved into all hype and no substance.
>>696208 to be fair, this isn't game design, this is corner cutting design, the devs just bit what they couldn't chew, and had to fall back on many of their ides, like the ones where the game was initially 3rd person and had legitimate flying cars and shit, everyone knows those already
>>700931 My conspiracy theory is that they bank everything on preorders and that sales afterwards are just a bonus. Pre-release hype machine going full train up until the game release and it is revealed as complete shit. The amount of retarded normalfags who preorders at the first sign of a 30sec trailer is astounding. It is almost certain they are getting milked for every cent they have.
>>699714 Edgerunners wasn’t good though
>>701109 it wasn't? i heard a lot of people talking about it.
>>701113 The only good thing about it was the animation otherwise it was insufferably bad.
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>>701116 It also had some retarded cybercunny.
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>>701123 >cybercunny tfw i will never have a cute robololi to play with.
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>>701123 >all the fanart has to make her a foot shorter and her head twice as big to even look like a loli westerners can't do anything right and as usual attribute anyone looking like they're under 18 as being a child.
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>>701113 Are you retarded? >>701116 >only good thing about it was the animation Are you retarded also? >>701123 >Cunny >>701130 This whole shit is made for western niggercattle, anon
>>701130 You say that but her sleep switch is called a ‘lullaby’. It’s pretty clear what trigger’s intent was.
>>701168 who cares when they make the character canonically 20 and look like an adult? dbds huntress sings a lullaby too is she supposed to be a loli now?
>>696208 The sad thing about Cyberpunk is that it's like Star Citizen: the player base is just jonesing for a decent game in the genera so that they don't have to play a twenty year-old game that they've played five times through again.
>>701175 Anon, come on.
>>701195 no you come on. I am beyond sick and tired of you americans and your endless crusade in the destruction of language. words have meanings and you're using them incorrectly fucking deal with it.
>>701175 >>701198 Please, educate us on how the clarification of a Japanese-English loan word is preservation of language, Mr. Sperg. Though I doubt you'd expend as much autism if someone called Jack in the Box a conbini since that doesn't make your dick hard.
>>701212 we use lolicon as a loan word because there is no english equivalent. shotacon on the other hand sees barely any use in the west comparatively because we already have a word for them. do you not see how identical you are to trannies trying to contort and debase the meaning of words in an attempt to muddy the waters of what you actually are in reality?
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>>701219 >we use lolicon as a loan word because there is no english equivalent. Ironic, since the term "lolicon", comes from the english word "loli", meaning a young girl who is precociously seductive. The use of this term is mostly known from the novel loli(about an adult who is sexually obsessed in a 12 year old girl, whom he nicknames loli) that was later adapted in a movie by Kubrick. I guess if you want an english equivalent of "lolicon", maybe "loli complex' could work.
Apparently someone found it funny to put a word filter on the term l0lita, and make it into loli.
>>701224 you think I don't know all this? none of what you said changes the fact that the japanese came up with a word for it then westerners adopted that word and are now trying to destroy the meaning of it altogether because they can't handle reality.
>>701227 Capitalize. Your. Sentences. If you're so upset by the destruction of language then start by correcting your faulty grammar.
>>701227 All I argued was that there is an english equivalent and you can use it. "Just stop using the term lolicon, and use L0lita Complex instead, and hopefully this meme will spread to others" is what I would have initially said, but the fucking word-filters, which contribute to the death of language, stop you from doing so, without looking like some 1337 h4x0r faggot.
>>701233 this entire conversation will be wiped soon enough for wrongthink so theres no point doing that. >>701235 >just stop calling yourself a woman and call yourself a female instead >see we aren't destroying anything yeah right up until you decide female should mean something else too.
>>701239 >false equivalence This isn't about replacing one english word with another, but replacing a japanese word, with it's english equivalent, when talking in english.
>>701242 if you want to be a pedantic faggot about false equivalences then don't confuse words with terms. lolicon came into common parlance in english precisely because there is no english equivalent word.
>>701245 Can you please define "lolicon" and "loli" and explain why "L0licon Complex" is not a good english substitute for a japanese loan word that is based on an english loan word? >lolicon came into common parlance in english precisely because there is no english equivalent word. I can just as easily claim, that the reason why people use this term, is because otakus like to mix japanese words in their english vocabulary, and this term seemed to have stuck, even if one could find an english equivalent. Also, >>701233 is right, you should definitely capitalzie your sentences, we are not on Yahoo Messenger.
>>701252 >Can you please define "lolicon" and "loli" and explain why "L0licon Complex" is not a good english substitute lolicon is someone who is attracted to prepυbescent girls which is what lolis are depictions of. the only possible reason you have for wanting to substitute this word for something else is because you want to destroy the meaning of it just as trannies are doing with the word woman. it works perfectly fine as is and needs no substitute. >I can just as easily claim, that the reason why people use this term, is because otakus like to mix japanese words in their english vocabulary, and this term seemed to have stuck which totally ignores the fact that all the phrases used by otakus are ones which have no english equivalent like yuri or yaoi or guro etc. >you should definitely capitalzie your sentences, we are not on Yahoo Messenger. you're clearly both newfags that don't understand how this board operates. where did you come from exactly?
>>697017 Anon that shit got figured out in 1845 by fucking russians of all people. If anything I'm wondering why it didn't become a more popular idea. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagant_M1895
>>701265 My bad, 1895.
>>701282 Pederast, Catamite. Theres two.
>>701283 Thanks for ruining the joke, cunt.
>>696208 Any of the following, especially if it's unavoidable or part of the best ending, or even a viable character and that happens in a fucking cinematic: >The big titty girl dies >The loli dies >The cute pure girl dies >The MILF dies >The hot evil girl that only needed to be converted with love dick dies
>>701267 >>701282 >>701283 >>701285 >>701286 >>701288 >>701292 >>701294 >>701297 It's the pedophile Luciano guy who spams the gamergate threads. Same guy talking to himself.
>>701298 ok most of these are Luciano but how the fuck is >>701297 Luciano?
>>701304 I'm not him, I just wanted to shitpost.
>>701167 >are you retarded No just brain damaged, also nice no sound webm you fucking nigger.
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>>700931 Look at this picture posted on plebbit as authentic and organic father-son release day bonding. It is pure marketing, wouldn't surprise me if these people are actors. Fucking normalfag eat that shit with both hand.
>>701415 What the fuck sort of gaming food are 3 hot dogs, a bowl of grapes, apples and gummy worms?
>>701684 American "cuisine"
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>>701700 Hot dogs aren't exclusively American, you're the same kind of fag that tries to pass of pictures of fat Bri*ish people as Americans when everything is in pounds and they are clearly eating Walkers, or that picture of the Germans with a power strip in the pool.
>>701725 Rollan
>>701725 your chart is missing the latchkey kid hotdog
>>701415 The guy's eyes are of a child rapist.
>>701853 I wonder if he has monkey pox
>>701855 The realistic and most probable outcome is that the child in the photo was given to him to be raped, as payment for this marketing stunt.
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>>701857 Damn, how can i land a job like that?
>>701725 All the Hot dogs we cook over here in 'Straya are grilled rather than boiled (we don't use frankfurters but rather beef or pork sausages), and served in a bun (or alternatively, a slice of bread like >>701796) topped with fried onions and sauces, ranging from tomato or BBQ sauce to mustard. We call it the "Sausage Sizzle" over here. I know this has nothing to do with your actual post but fuck it I though it was interesting to share.

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