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Investment and Finance Thread Bakanon 05/19/2021 (Wed) 15:42:25 No. 652
Today a lot of good people lost a lot of money due to the shenanigans of Elon Musk. Say something positive to them and wish them good luck. Mod edit: added a proper title for the current subject of the thread (financial discussion)
Edited last time by shotakot on 05/19/2021 (Wed) 18:05:27.
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Many poor souls in pain.
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F for all the good people.
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Erm, uh. I hope you are all able to afford a larger loo.
>>652 >good people [CITATION NEEDED] I'm just seeing a bunch of dumbasses who got scammed and now they have the audacity to not even acknowledge their own failings that allowed such a scenario to happen in the first place.
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should have diversified their investments and bought the dip
Investment/biz general?
>>659 Perfectly fitting topic for a No. 666 getball thread
>>657 Everyone has some good in them :) I'm stupid too, so my heart goes out to them. Fortunately I was already long since disillusioned with Elon Musky
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>>657 They're good people that helped others to get lots of money :^) >>659 Sure. /v/'s arguing over hentai and CP again, and there doesn't seem to be a particular place on the site for /biz/-like discussion.
>>652 I won't say that the guy that bought more doge is smart, but with his cost basis at 0.11$ after buying the dip, he's still in a great position to get a huge profit, provided he sells at another peak (eg when it has another short term retracement). But he's on Reddit, he'll think HAHA DOGECOIN TO THE MOON and wont sell when it recovers.
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I don't have much good to say about them. Golden rule of investing is not to invest money you can't lose. But I guess they are human beans who make mistakes sometimes, I hope they are okay
>>662 >there doesn't seem to be a particular place on the site for /biz/-like discussion. Our specialty should be safe and comfy investments. Not wild speculation, not an aspiration for huge returns, just slow and steady.
>>665 I said it before on /v/, but some golden rules: >Only invest money you can afford to lose >Pay off all debts and be in a stable financial situation; (eg have 4-6 months rent saved as cash, and pay off student loans, credit cards, lines of credit; anything that has 10%+ on interest will kill any investments you make) >Dont chase profits; it's not about how much money you can make, it's about how much money you can avoid losing >There will be other opportunities. Don't feel bad about missing out on a 2X or 3X gain (and besides that, being up 20% on a trade is huge, 200% is rare and more akin to gambling)
>>656 BLASPHEMY You can spend money on other things Not plates and utensils though, those are also a waste of money.
>>670 DED THRED But the Jap-man videos are good for people to watch, especially if you have savings/decent career. I had a bit of a windfall last year and I really should've bought something proper and cash-flowy. Instead I just parked it and had to pay a few thousand in taxes. Big 'oof' as hipsters say.
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Made some of the choice tweets into a single image
>>667 I'm stable but still owe money on my car. I could pay it off now but I don't know if that messes with my credit or not.
>>675 What's the interest rate and amount outstanding? It could be better to take out a generic loan with a lower interest rate, consolidate your debt, and pay off the car immediately
>>665 I haven't gotten into cryptos because I'm a poorfag, but I promised myself that if I ever buy a memecoin it would be one with features that make it useful beyond plain speculation. Something like Ethereum (because of its huge network and popularity), Monero (for privacy), Litecoin (mass used like Bitcoin but with much lower fees) and LBRY (assuming that the video/content platform isn't killed by USA's SEC), with stablecoins as a middle point to buy them. I wouldn't buy Bitcoin to hold it because it seems to have a lot of weak points that most people ignore (high fees, slow transaction times, harder to mine, mining dominated by chinks, etc), but I could use it to buy other coins. What does /c/ think of my plan? >>667 Also don't invest in shitcoins that try to ride on the popularity of other coins (like the 100 animal coins that spawned after Doge's rise in popularity) or a meme/shitpost (I've seen "people" shill something called dogshit for fucks sake). Also fuck NFT and everyone falling for them.
>>675 About 14 payments left, roughly 6k left. 6k seems low though. Maybe I can pay it off, then use my shiny non-lien title to get another loan and pay off my 4k CC. Again, I could pay it all off but I'd rather have some savings.
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>>677 I can't believe the SEC is going afte LBRY as opposed to every other scamcoin in the market. LBRY is the only buzzword open source decentralization buttcoin program that actually works. Maybe the US government really dislikes the fact you can pay for pirated pr0n with 0.0001 cents worth of money.
>>677 Bitcoin is generally considered the "gold standard" of cryptos, and most people that use it insist on using it to hold as a store of value. I'm also partial to Ethereum, Litecoin, Monero, and a few others. The big thing is, can you afford to park your money for 5-10 years or longer? This will allow the coins to appreciate, and allow you to shrug off market volatility (eg the stuff that happened today wont matter 5 years from now) "Time in the market beats timing the market" And yes, NFTs seem like a meme. If you can manage the hustle great, but it's even riskier to me. >>678 Yes, definitely keep some cash handy, but what's the interest rate on the loan?
>>675 Paying off a loan early will never negatively impact your credit - it just won't positively impact your credit. Do you really care that much about what a jew thinks about you that you'd chose to keep that sword of Damocles hanging over your head? Get rid of debt as soon as you can or else it'll become the rope that you're hanged by.
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Random finance video for edutainment purposes. >>680 Hmm, can't find it on the site so I might have to dig up actual paperwork.
>>679 Yeah, it's a load of crap. Here are the detail of the lawsuit if any anon ITT hasn't read about it: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/blockchain-firm-lbry-tries-to-rally-sector-against-sec-critics-allege-a-cryptocurrency-suppression-program-11617807779 https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2021/lr25060.htm >>680 >can you afford to park your money for 5-10 years or longer? Sure. I've lost more money by forgetting where I hid it than by wasting it on retarded projects. Ideally I would have two bags, one for short-term investments (not just buying/selling coins for others, but for using them as actual currency and buying products and services with them), and another for long-term use (rare opportunities for quick high gains, buying expensive things) and emergencies.
What's the take on XRP (ripple)? People seem to think they're going to do well vs the SEC. I'm not so sure.
>>688 My dad has some? He watches TV and reads the news and is basically a boomer that follows trends. Make of that what you will
>>688 I don't even remember why the SEC was going against them in first place, only that it caused a lot of butthurt.
>>691 The claim is that their initial fundraising counted as selling a security.
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So, exactly what caused the sudden dip that magically disappeared hours later? Was it Elon Musk as normalfags say, the Chinese and their mining farms, a secret cabal of "whales" teaming up to squeeze retards out of the game, the Bogdanov, or just an extremely convenient succession of unrelated events?
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>>696 Probably a combination of Musk shitposting and Chinese policy. I saw this a few hours before the activity started
>>697 Or rather, it could have also been that some behind the scenes shit was known to them, and they pulled out
>>696 The Chinese government reiterated that all companies are banned from trading any crypto. It wiped out heaps of the market. Not many have recovered yet. Binance and Coinbase threw the brakes on trading - which shouldn't be a surprise as they always do this when the market crashes - and still haven't lifted bans yet. If you're tuned into what the chinks are doing then it shouldn't be a surprise; why would a government interested in complete central control want decentralized currency?
>>696 I forgot to add, after the Chinese ban, Elon tweeted a crypto meme indicating that he was holding currency, which rallied the market a bit.
So here's another question. Tether has been revealed to be basically broke, with, what was it, 3% of their claimed funds being actual cash and most of them being actually short term loans. Isn't this going to destroy exchanges?
>>699 >Binance and Coinbase threw the brakes on trading - which shouldn't be a surprise as they always do this when the market crashes - and still haven't lifted bans yet. So, the only reason prices haven't dropped further is because of the hold on trading. Aren't they just delaying the inevitable, when they lift the ban and the prices drop like they should?
>>701 I thought USDT was pretty stable. Huh, that's spooky then. There's also BUSD but then that's tied to Binance
>>702 >Aren't they just delaying the inevitable Pretty much. All they're doing is making time for the big players to close their positions before things get too bad. Same as always.
>>704 Couldn't you make that argument that, knowing they'll do this again and again (any exchange, not just crypto), that you should have reasonable outs in case things go pear-shaped?
>>701 Yes, but since reviewing all the company's financials and drafting a document proving its dirty laundry takes a long time, to the point where the documents no longer reflect the company's current situation, Bitfinex has been spared from getting into even bigger trouble (at least until they can't borrow anymore and the whole thing collapses). >>703 There were various documents showing that Tether only had enough cash to back 70% of the coins minted (the other 30% being various assets). The NY Attorney General investigated them, buy they managed to come with an agreement (cease doing businesses in NY) before the case escalated to a federal level.
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I want to learn more about different type of cryptos, what places to buy (and sell) from, what documents are needed, and what can actually do with cryptos. Can someone give me some pointers? I have gondolas to share.
>>707 I'm a retarded nocoiner as well, but common general advises I've seen are: - Coinbase, RobinHood and Binance are shit and will cuck on you the moment things go down - PayPal's new option to "buy" money is a scam because it only "borrows" it to you - Don't buy blatant shitcoins, no matter how funny are their memes - Bitcoin can be traced, so buy Monero instead if you need to do something "private" -- The downside of this is that Monero is harder to get due to its enhanced privacy and anonymity, but places like LocalMonero can help - Mining pools can help you to get coins faster than mining them alone - DON'T PANIC SELL, you only make things worse for everyone but the people buying your coins
>>707 Cryptos are not backed by any asset, they have no specified value. That is, unlike fiat and gold-backed currency, they're purely speculative in nature and depend entirely on market sentiment. Being a speculative asset, there can be days or weeks where it swings by 10, 20, 30% or more. Different cryptos have different utility, which becomes a bit of their selling point. Originally, Bitcoin was developed as a decentralized and anonymous currency which is deflationary in nature (eg it has a fixed supply and they can't just "print more", like they can with the dollar). One of the criticisms of BTC is that it takes a lot of energy to process transactions because of the computations involved. A cryptocurrency is basically just an algorithm. Coins are stored in "wallets" and each wallet has a public key (eg your house's mailing address) and a private key (eg the deed to your house). Transactions are performed against a public ledger, and signed with your private key to validate the transaction. Miners validate the transactions, and are occasionally paid out for their work. This is true for each type of coin, though they have their own paradigms for wallets and processing. Normally, you'd go to the project's homepage and download the wallet software, and "somehow" acquire the coins from someone. Because of the inherent risk, exchanges found a niche and are a safe and popular way to convert money into coins and trade them and vice versa. When you create an account on an exchange, it basically creates a wallet for each crypto type that it supports so you only have to worry about your account/password. There is an important phrase in the crypto world: Not your keys, not your wallet. This means that if you do not have the private key for a wallet, you do not have full control of the wallet. Exchanges keep the private keys and lend you the public ones. (eg they give you the key to the house but still own it). This means that if you put $100,000 and keep it on the exchange, you're a moron. Hacks happen, businesses collapse, etc. Best practice is to move coins from the exchange's wallet to your own self-managed ones as soon as you're done trading with them. Some exchanges will charge eg $25 transfer fees, depending. As for different exchanges, I'm in Canada and use Binance, and I found out I can't even fucking fund it with a Canadian bank, so I had to use a Canadian exchange called Shakepay to buy coins, then trade them to Binance, then convert them to whatever memes. Personally, I'm not as keen on Binance now since they halted some trades recently, and are Chinese backed / ownered or some shit. Robinhood had some controversy lately as well. As for the coins, Bitcoin (BTC) is "a store of value". Less about transactions and just HODLing money, as the memes go. Ethereum (ETH) is more functional and is the backbone of many more novel coin types on the network. Popular second choice. Anons like Monero (XMR) because while coins are pseudonymous, Monero is actually anonymous somehow. Litecoin (LTC) is also popular with anons, while Dogecoin (DOGE) is a bit of a meme but worth a gamble. Only invest money you can afford to lose
>>708 >Mining As transactions are processed, miners are rewarded. Every 4 or 5 years, the Bitcoin network will halve the amount of coins it releases to miners, slowly reducing the amount it puts into circulation. At the current rate of release, the last bitcoins are scheduled to be released around the year 2100, so it's lifetime stable for most anons. Different coin networks have different release schedules. Eg, Doge is uncapped and they can just shit out 1,000,000,000 coins tomorrow if they wanted to (and they might if it rises to like $10 a coin). Mining is risky and expensive, because of the sheer amount of processing power and electricity it takes. You've heard stories of people setting up BTC farms and losing hundreds of dollars a month on bills. Solo mining is retarded, because in BTC's case, it gives a full coin out to a random miner. Mining pools are the go-to: basically if someone in the pool is rewarded, the pool manager divvies the coin up to each miner based on the work contributed. >>708 >Paypal Many institutions are moving to support or sell coins. Expect significant overhead when dealing with them. Even using a credit card to buy crypto can be risky: the exchange could be shady and steal it, some banks don't support them, and some banks support them, but treat it as a cash advance (which immediately charges your monthly interest on the transaction). Read the fine print. >BTC can be traced Only a problem if you're doing something shady. If you're buying drugs on SilkRoad or something, yeah you would want to use Monero, but for general memes and investing, nothing wrong with BTC or others. Be warned that regulation is a grey area. Many governments (eg US/Canada) want to treat any conversion of coins to money as a form of capital gains, thus making it taxable (this is also why coins like USDT and BUSD exist, to follow 1:1 to the USD so that all trades are coin:coin rather than coin:money, to avoid taxation) >Don't panic sell This is general investment advice. Also don't buy everything all at once or go all-in on one asset or asset class. If you buy something at $10, and it crashes to $5, guess what? You can lower your average unit price to $7.50 at the risk of doubling down; is it then more likely for it to go back to $10, or to $8? As long as you stay the course and just wait it out, it'll go green again; it's just a matter of how long
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ITT
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Oh fuck, is happening again.
>>719 >Happening again There was a several hour break. I'd argue that it never stopped. Grab some popcorn, there's nothing comfier than watching bigger fools than you get burned
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https://twitter.com/Fxhedgers/status/1395216136254345223/ Looks like a lot of people didn't understand fully the risks of what they were doing and as soon as the market went against them, they were forced to liquidate their positions at a huge loss Don't trade on leverage or margin unless you know what you're doing. Don't borrow money either
Have a couple questions about wallets. First of all, what's the real difference between the web, mobile, and desktop clients? I assume, that the desktop clients are the most "secure" by default, but just asking because I'm curious. Second, after going to the website of the cryptos that I'm interested in, here are the wallets that I'm looking at: >Bitcoin Core: https://bitcoin.org/en/wallets/desktop/windows/bitcoincore/ >Monero GUI Wallet: https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ >Guarda Wallet (Litecoin, Ethereum): https://guarda.com/ I was wondering is anyone has any experience with these or if there's a better wallet out there for these currencies.
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>>728 >in the last 24 hours, more than 775 000 traders have had their account liquidated, equal to $8.6 billion worth of crypto Holy fucking shit, no wonder why there were so many people mad at Elon Musk (even when he wasn't directly responsible for the dump). It should be required to take an "ignorance/naivety test" before being able to use the internet and using money in general. >>732 >what's the real difference between the web, mobile, and desktop clients? Desktop clients store everything in your PC (at least that's what the official ones do), blockchain included. As you said, they're the "safest" ones because everything is stored in your PC, but have the disadvantage of taking a truckload of space in your HDD (because the blockchains are huge, Bitcoin's takes over 300GB of data) and consuming more bandwidth (because the blockchains need to be updated and synced). With some coins (like Monero) you can work with only part of the blockchain (saving a lot of space and bandwidth), but that also depends on the wallet used. Web clients are like online banking sites. Your wallets are stored in the company's servers, with an online account serving as the identification that lets you access the contents of the wallet. The obvious advantages is that you don't need to download hundreds of GB worth of blockchains because the web server does it for you and everyone, but since you don't physically own the device containing the wallets you are left with less control over it (for example, the company could block you during a mass dump to protect its business) and with a bigger risk of being hacked (this has happened multiple times) or abandoned because the company went bankrupt. I don't know about mobile clients, but I assume they're similar to web ones.
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>>732 Desktop wallets are the ones which you have to generate a private key (a long 12 word passphrase) and password. Its like your stash at home. They keep your coins in your harddrive. Online wallets are most often part of an online exchange like coinbase, binance. You make an account and they verify your identity and then you use THEIR wallet. Its not as private as your home stash, but since the exchange is nearby you can easily sell/trade. This is more of reallife wallet/Coin pouch. It can be stolen, Robinhood/Coinbase/Binance is stopping transactions when market crashes to save their own butts. Therefore untrustworthy. And have to give your personal ID to them. So really it should be called Stash/Locker for desktop wallets and Coin Pouch/Purse for online shit. That's the extent of my knowledge. Someone on /v/ said >wallet <whatever your shitcoin says, get a software for each coin >exchanges <use a crypto atm to grab etherium, then use decentralized exchanges to pump it into monero, and finally whatever coin you actually want, doing the reverse for withdrawals. Its slower than using some IRS approved exchange but you wont have to hand over your social security and bank details for the inevitable breach. How valid is this? So crypto atms are meatspace guys selling crypto for cash, its as secure as your human seller can be. Are exchanges any better in this? A fixed fee for cash exchange, with no ID required, is there any that do that? Also this sites donation page shills for Atomic Wallet is this even good?
What sites do you use to keep track of the prices? I use coin360, coingecko if c360 is down, and blockchain.com if the former two are kill (usually happens during a massive dump), but are there better sites for this?
>>744 I just use CoinMarketCap. Some days I check prices, sometimes I dont, sometimes multiple times a day. Unless ypure actively trading it doesnt make a big deal
Any other investment questions, not just crypto?
>>752 I've read some comments about buying and storing silver and gold as a long-term investment, but to be honest I don't know much about how good idea is this in practice.
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>>756 Investing is the one time that diversity is a good thing. If you put all your money in Bitcoin, that's silly. You could do Bitcoin and Ethereum, so that if one does poorly, you still have a good position on the other. But what if the market turns against crypto as a whole like it did the other day? Now you're caught with your pantsu down and not in a good way. Thus, what you want to do is build a diverse and healthy portfolio with a variety of asset classes: stocks, bonds, real estate, precious metals, etc. Proper investing is about risk management and growing your money over time; while you will have slower gains than going all-in on something, you also have a much safer risk/return balance and can shrug things off when the markets go south. Gold and silver fall under the "precious metals" category. They are somewhat analogous to Bitcoin and Ethereum, in a way. Gold and Bitcoin are used as a "store of value" and their per unit value (1 oz vs 1 coin) is intimidating to buy. Silver and Ethereum are smaller are more favored as a "means of currency", and are fractionally smaller than the other. But that's where the similarity ends; in a SHTF scenario, you can use physical gold and silver, while if there's a collapse of society, electronic funds might not be as desireable. If you are in a stable and secure location, I would recommend that you take possession of physical bars (pic related is a 1 oz bar); in a worst-case scenario where there's a run on banks, they might not have the ability to provide the assets you physically own. Banks also charge a storage fee. Thus it's best to have it yourself, followed by safety deposit box, followed by paper/certificate ownership. If you want to expose yourself to gold/silver without physically owning it, there are appropriate ETFs (exchange-traded funds) that are pegged to their value. Precious metals are frequently used as a hedge against inflation as well. There's more than gold and silver, too. Palladium, Platinum, and Titanium are also popular, though I've not heard as much discussion about them, so I don't know if people just buy contracts or certificates for them. Here's a funny story that you can use to gauge the overall health of the economy: Look if there's an increase in thefts for catalytic converters in your nearest city. When metals are doing well, the economy is doing well; when there's theft of CCs, people are ripping them off cars for their platinum and palladium to sell to chop shops and jewelers. It's like how you hear stories about people ripping up copping wires to sell to scrapyards. Same concept. As for whether to buy silver or gold specifically? My money's on silver. Gold is valuable and tends to be aggressively recycled (eg from PCB chips and the like). It also just sits there as jewelery. It has some industrial uses, but very infrequent and specific ones. Silver is used in more industries: photo development, fertilizers, electronics, jewelry, even medicine. As I mentioned above, it's easier to trade because its denomination is so much lower. Additionally, I heard the number of viable silver mines will start becoming depleted sometime in the next 20-25 years. If you're still young (I'm 30), you still have lots of time to accumulate a position when the market dips, but over a long period, it's going to be a slow winner. I have about 200 oz myself, and it fits into a shoebox. Going back briefly to diversity of assets, I have somewhere around $30,000 set aside from money I saved up over 5 years. This isn't a means to brag, since I know there are much wealthier anons out there, and it's play money - it's not even enough to secure a down payment for a house. I have: >$7000: Stock plan from work (10% matched, up to $2,000 a year) >$3000: Deferred profit-sharing plan from work (via Manulife, I have it set to favor Canadian equities and a 30-year bond) >$6500: Individual stocks and ETFs (self directed) >$4000: Collectables (sealed Magic: the Gathering product) >$7500: Precious metals (silver; purchased via bank) >$3000: Cash >$3300: Mutual fund (via bank) >$800: Crypto If I suddenly had more money, I would round out my portfolio further, with an amount of bonds (quarterly fixed payments) and real estate (if you can ever get to the point where you have 3 or 4 profitable rental properties, you're done, you don't need to ever work again). Real estate is probably the best asset class for year-over-year growth. It's just difficult to break into proper. tldr; Silver and precious metals are a wonderful investment. Ideally you'd physically take possession, and have a long enough time horizon to park it for 20+ years. It's a long one, but the prospects are good.
>>757 Some other general investment tidbits: >Only invest money you can afford to lose >Any money you invest should be set aside for several years if possible >Never sell an asset unless you absolutely have to - eg you have emergency bills to pay >Detach yourself emotionally - don't panic sell, and stay the course >Do your own research and perform due diligence (DD's) >If you need more money you have two choices: Earn more or spend less I'd also like to suggest that you own assets you understand and enjoy. You might notice I have a decent position in MTG cards - I consolidated my single cards that were unlikely to have long-term value and upgraded them to sealed product which is much more likely to appreciate over a period of 10+ years. This is something I have good knowledge of, and enjoy the underlying asset. If my dad or your dad were to own the same thing, they'd probably regret the purchase and dislike holding onto it. I bought it because I like it, and I know what I'm doing with it. Also, while credit card debt is not ideal, owning a cash-back credit card is fantastic. I only ever use it for purchases I can immediate pay back, or can pay back within a week or two, so I never have interest accumulate. Every dollar you spend on interest is wasted money. However, for large purchases such as dental bills and the like, it basically serves as a 2 or 3% discount. Remember, due to the nature of compound interest, every dollar you save today is worth several times more 5 and 10 years down the road. The same is also true of a line of credit - it's basically a secured loan you set up against collateral such as a vehicle or property (eg a Home Equity LoC or HELOC). It's something you never want to use, but it's good to have as a tool in emergencies.
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>>757 I have some silver from my old man, just few ounces though and jewelery. My mom says they are your "home money" and shouldn't be spent unless its emergency, so I've relegated to keeping them with my moms. Now I'm thinking of buying silvers, from my profit money if I ever got profit. Its good to hear from people smarter and better than me. huh. Got any tales of good/bad investments that paid off/didn't pay off?
>>757 >>758 This is really informative, specially the part regarding precious metals. Continuing on the subject of metals, what place do you recommend for buying them? In your post you mentioned getting your silver from a bank, but I'm guessing that there are other ways to get it. Do you need a bank account to be able to buy gold/silver from banks, or can you simply go and say "give me 20oz of silver, please"? Do they sell metals other than gold and silver? Another thing, do precious metals degrade with the time and weather? I was thinking on burying my hypothetical precious metals pirate-style to keep them safe from burglars and accidents.
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>>759 Like many others, I've only started seriously investing in the last year. I think I set up my self-directed trading account at my online brokerage at the end of April last year. Like I said above, a lot of it was just setting aside money here and there while I worked and not really paying attention to where it went. While I'm (unfortunately) in Canada, you see that my DPSP from work is exposing me to Canadian equities, while my self-directed stuff is mostly dealing with US equities, so that gets me a little bit of both markets. Remember that inflation is about 2% per year on average, so any investment you make will lose money if your parked money doesn't earn at least that much in a calendar year. This is why "cash is trash". A decent investment will hit 4-10% and a great one will be 12%+; but make sure the risk is in line with your returns. >Good/bad investments that did/didn't pay off This is actually a great question, since you only ever hear about success and never the failures. Remember that it's okay to make bad decisions, it's how you learn, and it's important to identify toxic assets that you need to ditch, and how to navigate fuckups. Any managed funds (mutual funds and ETFs) have a management fee that's built into the fund itself. This is so that the market maker is able to receive compensation for it. ETFs cost something like 0.40% per year at most. Banks in Canada typically have a management fee of 2.00% per year at minimum. I actually changed my mutual fund contributions because that 1 or 2% could be better sunk into basically any other investment. After one year of contributions, I was up maybe 1% after taxes, fees, and expenses and inflation costs. Not ideal. A more exciting example is that when I started trading last year, I put $1200 into the market. This was at a time where everything was correcting itself and you would make money on literally anything as long as you had a position in it. So in a month or two, I made $200, which is about 15%, pretty good return. So I put another $1200 into the market, did another 3, 4% on trades. At the time I figured that if I could earn 1% per week on $2000 in, I'd make $24,000 in 5 years. I had a coworker who was looking at /r/pennystocks (I don't use Reddit myself) and GNUS was trending, so I made $100 on that too. He suggested another stock, in the same sector called Cinedigm (CIDM). So I thought that was free money, went all in at $6.00 a share and... it collapsed to about $2.20 in about 10 minutes. No joke, if I had bought it 15 minutes sooner or later, I would've avoided the peak and wouldn't have lost 80% of my money. So what would you do in that situation? I didn't panic sell, I was too stubborn for that, I was okay to wait it out, but boy did that feel awful. I felt a little pensive for a good two hours. What I ended up doing was waiting. And waiting. And waiting. While I went "all in" I still had additional cash in my bank account. So about 2 months later, I bought more shares at $1.80; this diluted the average cost per share down to about $3.50. I waited another 6 months and bought even more shares at $1.20, and my average was about $1.80. It spiked again to like $2.00, $2.20 or around there, by carefully averaging down (at the risk of putting more money against it), I was able to navigate a bad entry point and turn it into a modest profit ($100 or so). For the amount of risk I took and the amount of money I earned for the amount of time it took I would say it was not worth it; however, I was able to exit in the green, which is what mattered. If I was more prudent, I would have invested it elsewhere and had better returns, but that's part of the learning process. After I exited that trade entirely, I ended up buying more shares of it when it dipped. After sticking with the stock for almost a full year, I had a good sense of it's ups and downs. For example, every time there was good news, it was heavily shorted and the price was suppressed, so I used "good news" as an indicator of an upcoming dip and used that to buy more shares cheaply. I have about 3800 shares at 1.34 average cost, and while I'd like to exit it at $1.80 - $2.50 on a swing trade, I legitimately do think in 2-3 years it has much better prospects if I hold onto it.
>>759 >>761 It's funny though, because I have so many shares of it, a $0.01 change in price is a $40 swing in my portfolio. There's always a sense of amusement seeing (-$400) one day and (+$700) the other. >>760 >Continuing on the subject of metals, what place do you recommend for buying them? In your post you mentioned getting your silver from a bank, but I'm guessing that there are other ways to get it You can also buy precious metals from jewelers, pawn shops, or brokerages, depending. For example, not every pawn store deals with jewelry, and some jewelers probably charge a lot more, because of their specialty. When I bought mine, I ended up paying about 8% above mid-market price, plus a $30 fee. I went with the bank because I already had an account there and I knew there wouldn't be a risk of debased metals, so I didn't mind the higher price. Metal will only really degrade if it's exposed to contaminants (eg oxygen, water). If you notice, my picture of my silver bar was sealed in plastic. They were provided to me in sheets of 15 (5x3) and individually sealed with a serial number. I suppose they're fine to just sit in a room, but if you put them in the ground, perhaps find a good box that can resist weathering and moisture. Not that it makes a big difference - they can be smelted down and recovered if things get fucky after a few years.
>see pancakebunny bottomed out after hack >decide to buy the dip with my trust wallet play money >page kind of loads 50% of the time, mobile html layout kind of doesn't work, very slow >exchange and then stick my coins in their 300% return defi contract because why not >all the data is prefilled by trust wallet >transaction fails first two times with successful receipts, third time works >made $6 on $95 already, allegedly God, what a shonky, hot mess. This feels like 1998 internet, which is refreshing. They're going to regulate the everloving fuck out of this someday. That or just ban it.
>>770 I believe Canada, US, and India want to regulate crypto while China and Russia want to ban it. Or maybe I got Russia and India backwards. China has 48% of the world's processing power of bitcoin. Doge trended with cad/usd/indian ruples at its peak. Not sure of the implications but your bigger altcoins might depend on these guys. Also what functionality does defi/pancake have?
>>771 Defi (decentralized finance) seems to consist of smart contracts on ethereum or similar clones chains which offer some financial service which pays you in some form for holding your money and using it to do things. Compound, I've learned, for example, takes your money and loans it to other people. It takes multiple coin types and offers an interest rate proportional to the scarcity of the coin type. Other currency is used as collateral by borrowers. Pancakebunny, as far as I can tell, aggregates a bunch of other smart contracts on pancakeswap and then bundles them up as managed products to offer to the investor, with risk being proportional to the profit margin. There is a complicated fee structure which discourages volatile actions and rewards holders. It crashed recently as it was hacked with a software exploit and hackers ran off with 45 million. The developers unveiled a plan to return that wealth to holders and it has slowly crept up again.
>tfw you decide to look up your country's obligations for tax reporting on crypto >tfw you realize that you are fucked If you live in a country that is shit about this, I urge you to keep an excel spreadsheet or something.
>FxHedgers: >CHINESE CRYPTO WHALE SELLING MORE THAN TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND BITCOINS -SOURCE Gonna flood and crash the market again.
I'm going to play some video games. I can't watch these charts dump.
>>781 What youre doing is day trading from the sounds if it. You should have your exit plan before you buy it. A dip like this should be factored into your plan too - waiting long enough will average it out. Reminder its normal for crypto to have swings of 10-30%
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>>781 Let's watch the dump together. I can hold your hand if you're too scared to watch them alone. ( ´ ω ` )ノヾ(・ω・*)
>>811 What's the name of that chart? I always see it but never know the name
>>813 Yeah but the type of graph. Its a heat map or something?
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Is atomic wallet a valid exchange? This site's donate page recommends it but it looks like yet another mobile app crypto site which would lock you out at first sign of trouble. >>762 >>761 >>770 >>772 Thanks anon!
>>817 Any exchange that holds fiat money is incentivized to block trades in the event of a crash. Their operating fees will cover their usual business, but, as with a bank, if there's a run on them, they won't be able to satisfy all the big accounts rushing to get out at once. It's actually worse in crypto, because unlike fiat banking, which is partitioned into companies with decent barriers between them, with crypto, I can just roll up to any exchange and they are pretty much obligated to serve me and I can try and cash out my savings.
>another day, another crash So why are the markets down today?
>>819 They're down because you tried to get ahead :^) But seriously, markets are closed on weekends so we'll only see crypto and forex action. I think it will keep declining until BTC stabilizes around 20-25k but that's just my guess and is good as yours. If I knew what I was doing I'd be retired already
>>820 https://mobile.twitter.com/CryptoWhale/status/1396100822245777408 Well, now we know. This is how you wind up committing suicide with two bullets to the back of your head and with pennies over your eyes.
>>709 >One of the criticisms of BTC is that it takes a lot of energy to process transactions because of the computations involved what is wrong, not only eventually all miners will move to the cheapest electricity available due to that being more profitable and thus out competing everyone else, the mining of bitcoins takes 10 minutes per block on average, if you increase the processing power of the whole grid, the difficulty scales upwards to compensate. There is nothing inheritably computing intensive about mining bitcoin, it is done expensive by design through artificial means to ensure the block mine rate to be as close as 10 minutes per block on average.
>>829 If I attach heavy weights to your shoes, that doesn't change the fact that there is nothing particularly difficult about walking, and yet you will get tired. Artificial difficulty is still difficulty. Saying "well, if only a few people did this then it would all be fine" is meaningless and bizarrely reductive. Furthermore, we have seen that the cheapest (without negative externalities priced into it) power available is coal, and coal power plants have been put back into operation to power mining. I also think that the secondary waste of millions of GPUs and ASICs can't be overlooked. Also, anon wasn't talking about mining, but transactions. A common criticism of Bitcoin in the wake of Tesla's acquisition of them and then later sale, is that the environmental cost in energy to perform a transaction is extremely high; achieving network consensus is expensive I guess.
$35,600, BTC drops lower again Taking bets on when or if we hit $30,000
>>838 >Furthermore, we have seen that the cheapest (without negative externalities priced into it) power available is coal No, the cheapest power on the planet is nuclear, geothermal, hydropower, and gas (The state of matter, not gasoline). The problem is that there is a criminally small amount of said power planets for these type of power creation and distribution because of so-called "environmentalists" who think we're living in 1980's Ukraine.
In typical Chinese fashion, theyve set up a hotline to tattle on each other https://www.tomshardware.com/news/china-establishes-cryptocurrency-mining-hotline
>>846 The cheapest available is equivalent to cheapest outright. Miners have no appetite to build power plants yet.
>>844 BTC $32,900 NOT comfy
>>850 Dude it's fucking brutal.
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>>851 DOGE got fucked too $0.26 or less was the low BTC is now below the DOW30 index (which is probably reasonable). Interested to see how stonks do on Monday. Ah fuck is it a long weekend in burgerland? Posting from Leafistan
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>>856 Getting goldfaced for my crypto losses is also not comfy.
Everytime I pull a Cassandra and successfully predict short term futures is painful. I told my fatass cousin it could happen to just cash out and buy other stuff, but he knew better of course
How are you guys holding up? I'm just waiting for things to go back up again.
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>>863 I'm a poorfag nocoiner, so this doesn't affect me at all.
>>861 Theyre unrealized losses. You dont lose until you sell!
>>863 I'm buying in more and more. My cost average is going down and my profits will go up once it recovers (note: I don't buy coins without utility, so they're practically guaranteed to recover in the medium term) Plus, stock. Now's a decent time to buy there too. Not too much yet though, I smell a depression coming.
>>867 >guaranteed That's a word that has no place when discussing finance. Even a GIC-style asset is impossible to guarantee in the event of shit collapsing. Will it? Probably not, but as part of your due diligence, do please try to account for various types of risk. >cost averaging down Not a bad idea, as long as you don't get carried away with it. Make sure you have reasonable entrance and exit points/strategies and an appropriate time horizon (and make sure it's not the bulk of your portfolio). Personally I expect BTC to drop to $20,000 or lower, then gradually stabilize around 20-25k, before having a slow and longterm growth for several years. It will take time before it gains momentum and hype again (due to regulations and muh environment). I use BTC as an example, but ETH is probably the same way; other altcoins are probably going to collapse until there's a few utility ones left standing (I know LTC and XMR are popular with anons; there won't be any price action on Monero, for example, until normalfags latch onto it, but they're not going to care about security - but you'll probably be glad you have a position in it when it does) >I smell a depression coming I would be curious as to what your thoughts are for stocks to invest in, then. I haven't experienced a bear market myself, or know how to deal with one, I would like to know what your perspective is on it. Bonds might be a very strong option. Granted, you'll only earn something like 3-6% on them since they are a conservative asset, and you have to buy them in increments of $1,000 or $5,000 or $10,000 depending on the type. Basically you buy the bond for the full face value, then the writer that issued them will pay you quarterly interest payments (eg 5% yield bond gives 1.25% per quarter) as a coupon payment. At the end of the bond's maturity (say 10 years), you get your initial investment back. What's cool is that municipal bonds are very safe and are generally tax-free. I've heard stories of 8-figure CEOs using these to ride out the 2008 recession and shrug it off as if nothing even happened. As for stocks, I've heard Consumer Defensive and Utility sectors are strong plays. Utilities tend to be slow and boring but apparently do well during a downturn, plus many pay decent dividends. During the 2008 recession, dollar stores did very well, too.
>>868 Monero's main utility is darknet drug markets and similar enterprises. I see it as a proxy investment into the black economy that isn't going to get me arrested. It's a profitable bet in the long run, as our society is in a slow collapse, and black economies always expand in collapsing societies. Bonds are great to conserve wealth, but more or less useless in building it. Good for rich CEOs, not so good for anon. My strategy consists of keeping most of my capital liquid for the next couple months at least, and avoiding the dollar in case of sudden runaway inflation. That means once the downturn really bites, I can buy bargains. Diversification is key here, as everything will be wonky, but medium and large corporations are statistically unlikely to collapse. Medium corporations have higher volatility, so they're likely to make better targets, but I've got a quant screen for finding ideas (based on, but not identical to the one from Quantitative Value), then filter that according to where I see wider society heading in the medium term, which has tended to be accurate so far. I'll buy in more slowly during a depression since it's going to be hard to predict when we've hit bottom. Definitely going to buy some defensive sector too. We solved the last big depression with a world war and China is already posturing hard. No reason to think history won't repeat itself, wars make for great distractions when politicians have angry mobs at their door.
Is it possible for us to coordinate or help each other out? Or are we all just monkeys throwing darts around? Other than look at graphs, I lurk Telegrams and occasionally check r/CryptoMoonShots and 4/biz/. I'm dug in to my bets for now.
>>872 >using 4cuck or Reddit You should just kill yourself with kindness, because its important to look after yourself and take others with you because everybody deserves a chance at happiness What Im saying is that its kind of you wanting to help others out, but were all just guessing on what the best bets are
>>872 >cryptomoonshots I prefer smallcapcoins. CMS seems too seedy and full of hucksters trying to make a buck.
Lots of coins up 20-80% in the last 24h depending on their size. I'm expecting this to continue for a day or two and then the real dip will happen
>>888 Word on the street is that china is going to ban mining outright. That'll be the giga dip. Bitcoin will be totally rekt for a while if they do.
>>888 The hardest part is the waiting game aspect, like one of those games at the arcade (Where you're trying to knock balls/coins off a sliding platform). You wait for the average individual to put in just enough quarters through combined effort that you can then start playing and cashing out on the bigger bucks than anyone else.
>>890 Haven't they already banned cryptos, of course for the citizen not for the government. I'm sure if they already hold 40% of bitcoin as its rumoured they aren't going to give that up. Since it's been announced the markets should have already reacted and it probably contributed to the previous/current dip.
>>892 China is busy trying to get their own crypto state-controlled up and running: https://www.chinauncensored.tv/china-uncensored-episodes/will-china’s-digital-yuan-kill-the-us-dollar%3F
From 32k to 39k, BTC has had a decent recovery over the last few days. I still would advise caution and small, brief trades if you are looking to actively trade it over the next week
40k rejected. Any of you have stock suggestions? I can't do calls or puts since I'm really basic. I don't even know what a Stop/Loss is.
>>902 >I don't even know what puts and calls are Time to stop being a baka and educate yourself: https://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/10/etf-options-v-index-options.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/optioninvestor/03/073003.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/calloption.asp https://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/putoption.asp Reminder to never buy an investment until you understand the asset fully. Options trading is more complicated than basic stock trading. Puts and calls are part of the lingo for options. Options were originally designed as a way for commodities markets and producers to hedge risk. They're a derivative contract (eg their price depends on another asset) that gives you the right (but not the obligation) to buy or sell a specific asset for a specific price at a specific date. Suppose you were a corn farmer; historically, you'd buy a put option that would let you sell your corn at like $100/unit or whatever. The person who sold you the put option is betting against you on the price of corn. If it's a good year and there's tons of corn and people only want to pay $80/unit, then congratulations - you just made $20 more than you would have, because you can now sell your shit at the specified $100. If it's a shitty year and the price goes up to $120 because of demand, you basically wasted the money on the contract. Be aware that options expire and over 75% of them expire OTM - out of the money - and are unprofitable. More recently, they're used to speculate on assets, rather than to hedge risk in a portfolio. You're not only trying to time the market, which is impossible on a good day, you're trying to time the market to a specific date and price. Remember that options trade volume is public data - market makers and institutional investors can see a wall of options and manipulate prices, then do shit after they expire or lapse. Buying a Put contract allows you to sell an asset at a given price (eg putting it on the market). Buying a Call contracts (eg calling the debt) allows you to buy an asset at a given price. What happens when you sell a put or a call option? You are now responsible for providing 100 units of the underlying asset per copy of the contract should the person on the other end of the trade decide to exercise the option. Buying is "safe" but if you ever sell an option, be prepared to pony up if shit goes against you. In fact, some brokerages (eg Questrade in my case) offers 1, 2, or 3 levels of options trading, depending on your account's balance and your intent. If you sold a call contract and don't have the underlying asset - that's called a naked option and is illegal - this caused a major crash in the past and required new legislation to prevent it. Thus, you might find yourself in a margin/leveraged position where you're now paying borrowing costs on top of that, if your account doesn't get outright liquidated. In fact, many tax-advantaged brokerage accounts (eg TFSA/tax free savings account in Canada) won't let you sell options or go on margin, period. Know the risks!
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>>902 Real quickly on the topic of stop/loss orders: You have a variety of different types of orders for your brokerage: >Market - Buy/sell the asset immediately at the market price. This is shit because if you put an order in overnight and the prices gaps up/down against you on market open, you might end up paying more due to slippage, and generally having less control over the price. There is also a potential extra fee on any brokerage, see pic 2 >Limit - Buy/sell something at a given price. If you've played literally any MMO this is how their auction houses work. If no buyers like the price, it'll just sit there until cancelled or whatever >LOO/LOC - Limit on open/close: As above but on market open/close, respectively. It will cancel the order if not filled immediately. Probably only used for intense day traders, never heard anyone mention them >Stop - When the price rises or falls below a certain dollar value, buy/sell at the market price >Stop limit - When the price rises or falls below a certain dollar value, create a limit order at a specified price or percentage. Used by people to capture profits while reducing risk >Trailing Stop / Limit - As above, but the prices are always adjusted based on current market value Realistically, I've only ever used Limit orders because I can choose my entry/exit points. I recommend that as soon as you buy an asset, you have an exit price in mind, unless you plan to hold it indefinitely. Also have a plan in case you have unexpected losses, it's common sense (eg sell immediately, HODL, cost average up/down, etc)
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>>902 Finally, here's what options price data looks like (different from trade/volume data) >Price This is what the market is trading the contract for. >Open interest How many buy/sell orders are currently active? Not sure. I use this to gauge "interest" in a particular asset but I could be wrong. >Strike The price the underlying asset can be bought or sold for, depending on the nature of your option (put/call). Everything else should be self explanatory. This is for Gamestop / GME, on the date of January 21, 2022. Note that options typically expire on the third Friday of the month, so typically you'll see more price movement around this time in general. Also, options are done in units of 100. This, a strike price of $180 means you'll actually be moving $18,000 worth of stocks around - if you buy a call option, and you're ITM (in the money) you can exercise the option but that means you still need to pay for the $18,000 worth of stocks. If it's ITM, that means you can immediately sell them at market price and net a profit, less the cost of the option and any extra fees (QT charges $25 to buy/sell an option per transaction, plus an additional $45 fee to exercise it). From my dicking around, anything above $50 strike price still needed close to $10,000 of capital in order to do anything productive with it. One could say that options are also a "safer" way to short stocks. You just buy a few contracts and wait for the market to move in your favor, and if you're incorrect, you're only out a few hundred dollars
>>905 Thanks for the lengthy explanation. Looks like that 100 unit pre-req will filter out most poorfags like me. I will stay away from Options for the time being. Limit orders seem to be good enough. The other orders all seem redundant in comparison to Limit. I might try Stops sometime for those sweet decimal points. I use Market if I want something immediately.
>>906 How much do you have available for investments, how comfortable are with market swings, how long do you have to invest, and what are your goals? Also are there any stocks or sectors youre looking at, or have an outlook for 1 and 5 years?
>>905 >This, a strike price of $180 means you'll actually be moving $18,000 worth of stocks around - if you buy a call option, and you're ITM (in the money) you can exercise the option but that means you still need to pay for the $18,000 worth of stocks Only true for options that don't have cash settlement - there you just get the difference to the strike price and market price added to your account, assuming you're ITM. So, if the option allows you to buy for 100 bucks and the market price is 150 bucks, you get 50 bucks. Personally, I'd only deal with cash settlement anyway since it's less hassle, assuming you aren't actually securing a portfolio.
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>>907 >How much do you have? A couple thousand, respectively. But they are tied up in Doge and Soxl until my next sell. >How comfortable with swings? I have read Sun Tzu and have diamond hands. >Invest length A month or two at most would be my preferred average holds. I want to avoid day trading if possible. My goal is to reach seven figures using stocks or crypto. >Any outlook? Nope. Polygon because the fees are so low.
>>919 >A month or two at most would be my preferred average holds For income tax purposes, that's considered day trading. The threshold is usually 1 year or longer; that only really matters with a tax-advantaged account, which you should try to set up for stocks anyways. Also, you need to think bigger; try to rebalance your portfolio every 8-12 months or so, buy ETFs to capture gains on the broader market, invest a little money here and there every month, and think 5, 10, 25 years. We're all young here, a few decades is nothing.
>>922 >We're all young here, a few decades is nothing. Different Anon. But, I want to be financially independent by the time I'm 35. That gives me a decade to get my shit in order.
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I think I found a purpose behind the shitcoins. They're the lowest value of poker chips. For those who don't know, white chips are $1, red are $5, and blue are $10. Comparing these to cryptos, your blue chips would be Bitcoin and Etherium. Your red chips are "lesser" powerful ones like Dash and Lite. And, your white chips would be the shitcoins like Doge and Shib. Now, with white chips, they don't really exists for those who want to make any real money gambling. They just exist for people who are looking to play around with gambling and either lose their small amount of pocket change or come out with an extra $10 they didn't have prior. I was wondering if it's possible to use the shitcoins for a similar purpose. NOT as any currency with real value, but as a means to drop $5 exchanging around money between currencies to get a feel for the trading, how it works, how to send/receive crypto, how to convert it, and so on. As far as I know, there isn't really any application or "game" that exists that simulates how trading/exchanging in the crypto market actually functions. So, I was wondering if these shitcoins would be a good primer for what comes later.
>>962 It's a speculative asset, anon; you're gambling, not investing. You aren't buying to hold, you're buying to resell at a future date after it moves a stupid amount. It's incredibly volatile and (to me) the risk/reward isn't lining up. Not to mention, the fact that it's not backed by eg a company's financial performance, has little accountability, and the equivalent of an eceleb can shitpost on Twitter and make people win or lose millions? Not really for me, thanks, but if you can run the hustle, all the power to you
>>959 >I want to be financially independent by the time I'm 35 What does "financially independent" mean to you? You didn't say "retired" which implies you're still working.
>>969 > You didn't say "retired" which implies you're still working. I do admit that I would still be working, but I would be doing it for my own pleasure rather than working as a means to bring in a paycheck to pay the bills.
Im holding 3800 shares of CIDM at 1.34 Ive held and sold them here and there. I want to swing them at 1.80 but I think it has good long term prospects too. It frequently swings by 10-20% on a week and sees prices between 1.10 and 1.50 on average. My thought is that my vidya experience tells me I should swing them as often as I can to accumulate more shares every week but at the same time I dont want to miss out if it has a run. Anyone have a suggestion?
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>>976 Is there any chance for megacity rats like me to have financial independence, its like no one even 50 year olds are just paycheck and 'saving a deposit'. Other than well, going turbo jew and hustle up lots of "business"
>>980 No Mark. You are fucking doomed.
>>980 Increase revenue or decrease expenses. Those are your only choices. **I drink 2 or 3L of diet soda a day (Im not a lardass) and thats something like $700 a year per year I could be saving. With 4% interest compounded over 5 years thats nearly $3900 Im wasting
>>980 Stop going out to eat and stop buying shit to eat. Your breakfast now consists of frozen mixed veggies (whichever are on sale), heated up with a bit of oil. Your lunch and dinner are polenta(with only salt and water, dairy is for the rich and permanently poor) and beans (from dried, not canned, cheaper that way) with a bit of vinegar. The trick lies in not seasoning it overmuch, your goal is a sort of bread-flavor, just enough there to not taste empty, but not enough to tire of. For a cheap and flavorful drink on the occasions you cannot stand water, mix one heaped teaspoon cocoa powder with hot water and whisk. Sugar is unnecessary and rots your teeth. Another possibility is adding one tablespoon red wine vinegar to two cups of water. It's good for when you've been sweating. Start making some money from your hobbies. If you're programming, do some freelancing, if you're wargaming, sell painting services, etc. Also, try and pick hobbies that are either free or one-time payments, or at least cheap.
So I watch Rudy on Alpha Investments; he's a bit grating personality to new viewers I've found, but he has a multimillion dollar business with MTG cards. Every quarter, he sorts the high-end collections he's purchased and does an informal video about the state of the world. He rambles on about crypto and its place in the future for a good 30-45 minutes of the video. I learned a few things and it might be comfy background noise for you all. https://www.yewtu.be/watch?v=2fq1FgF81fU He thinks even if you buy crypto on its way down now, over the next 3 to 5 years you'll be way ahead of people who don't have any positions at all, or were too scared and cashed out, even if you take a huge loss along the way. He also mentions that dollar-cost averaging (eg buying investments monthly), his former investment clients did the best with that approach during a recession
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>>1030 buy gme
>>1030 Red means buy. Wait for it to tank 10 or 15% on the day or week, put $100 down and wait for it to drop again. Im expecting $25000 or so as a low. Keep building a position as you can afford to do so, dont go all in. Expect to lose half your money that you put into it, then wait 3 or 5 years
>>1032 >Red means buy. No, it just means prices are going down. Here are the prices I'm holding out for before buying: >Bitcoin <$20,000 >Ethereum <$300 >Litecoin <$75 >Monero <$100 >Dash <$50
>>1033 >it means prices are going down Yes which is why you want to cost average as it goes down so you get a better picture on what the true asset price is. You wont be able to time the bottom without dumb luck, its best to build a gradual position when the market goes in your favor
33,900 BTC! Whos ready for more dip?
>>1055 just stopping in to say it dipped more see >>1031
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This is my first bear market. It's a good time to buy more but my guts are telling me not to spend. Must resist staring at downward line.
>>1060 Again, you will never be able to time the market without dumb luck. If you have $1000, put $200 in to start, and have discipline and every time there's a day where the market (eg S&P500) dips by 3 or 4%, put $100 into it. Or set up a plan to put $100 into something like SPY at the start of the month no matter what the price is and build your position. You'll lose money in the short term for sure, but by building a position when people are freaking out, you'll come out ahead in the long run.
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>>990 >watching youtube videos >on financial topics gif related I watch louis rossmann just because he cheers me up, feels like a friend bitching about world, watching his bicycle streams while i have lunch or dinner. what other "background noise" channels you watch?
>>1082 Have you considered the cum town podcast? It's the best analog I know for candid conversations with friends.
What are some reliable and safe crypto exchanges that are not running through West Taiwan or are pozzed?
>>1097 what you mean is the least shit crypto exchange, as most of them charge huge fees and/or all your info.
>>1103 How huge is "huge"? Can you name some names and give specific values?
>>733 There are plenty of wallets that don't require you to download 100s of gigabytes.
>>710 It's still taxable whenever you exchange coins no matter what, so what's even the point?
>>1136 Like another anon said, you can use stuff like Monero which is untraceable, convert it to a one off BTC wallet, then use a BTC ATM to withdraw cash. The fees will likely outweigh the tax costs. Another option is to donate some to charities. There's some crap about donations of capital gains being used to offset income tax. Eg if you held BTC at 60k and expected it to drop, you could donate some and sell some then rebuy it when it got cheaper. Not sure of the exact tax mechanics at work here. Think of the law and legal frameworks as a set of rules that you need to creatively (and legally) avoid to maximize profit
>>1135 I'm in Canada and use Binance to trade memecoins. However they don't take Canadian funding so I had to use an exchange like Shakepay to buy BTC and send it over to Binance and vice versa when I want to cash out. Moving coins from Binance costs $25 per transaction. Additionally many exchanges will profit by charging a percentage of trading fees or offering free trades and taking a cut of the spread. Rather difficult to account for >>1145 >>1136 Also despite the taxation, the point is that its a highly speculative and volatile asset, so one could potentially capture much more profit in a week or month than a comparable passive investment, provided you can navigate the risks and have a tolerance for loss
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Having cash/tether sitting around is the worst feel. It's as if your money is sleeping on the job. Can't really find a good entry point in stocks because everything is green. BTC, and every other coin that follows it, is still crabbing. I've enabled Options trading on my account in case I feel like dipping my toes. Just don't want to buy at the top again.
>>657 I'm seeing a couple of people like that and a bunch of people joking like they're retarded too
>>1150 While you obviously don't want to hold cash long term, it's good to have liquid assets that you can use to buy things sparingly. >can't find a good entry point because everything is green Analysis paralysis. Timing the market is dumb, you'll never get the price you want. Like I mentioned above, put a small amount in and build a position over time. You want to have some position in a market so you can be exposed to it and capture gains, but you don't need to go all in. Put a little bit into it here and there when things look good. >options trading enabled Make sure you understand how that works, it's definitely more complicated.
Which crypto(s) is it that ties it's value to the U.S. dollar? All the exchanges I am looking at all require transfers of over $50 or more. So, rather than "waste" money, I'd figure hold the remainder I am not currently using to it's already present value. Also, use it as a way to immediately transfer gains made without having to go through an exchange in case they decide to freeze transactions again.
>>1185 Tether, USDCoin, Binance USD, Dai (this one is tied to Ethereum), and other stablecoins tied to fiat. https://ethereum.org/en/stablecoins
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>>1185 There are a myriad of stablecoins that exist to try to be pegged to the US Dollar. The most popular are Tether, USD Coin, Binance USD and Dai. Of the four, Tether is the best one to have by far as many exchanges use it as the prime stablecoin to exchange for other coins as it's the one with the most pairings. USD Coin is Coinbase's coin they use to compete with USDT and BUSD but really only sees use on Coinbase with some usage on other exchanges that have USDC paired with another. Binance USD is mostly used on the Binance Smart Chain which is big chain. Dai is more irrelevant compared to the other 3 but it does see it's usage. Dai is minted from another crypto called Maker. Of the four, Tether is the best Stablecoin to have and should be your go-to for USD-pegged coins.
>>1189 I'd like to add that on Binance, at least, they only seem to support Tether (USDT) and Binance USD (BUSD). However, Tether was criticized as only holding 70% of the actual assets it needs to, and BUSD is intrinsically going to be related to Binance as a platform (even if it is a technically universal coin with $1 value). Just something to be aware of if you hold them long term.
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>>1060 I am afraid to ask for sauce because it looks like from a guro doujin, but am curious enough for sauce. Pls Sauce. >>1189 Tether has been revealed to be basically broke, though I don't know how it would affect trading or IF it would affect trading. Mentioned here >>701
AMC up 96% today, 500% on the 7d charts Shits depressing. Would you buy into it now? Missed the boat
>>1193 I took the pic from /animu/'s biz thread on PLW. It is a manga about gambling on the Forex Market. No guro here.
>>1195 I got in on January when the share price was ~$9.60. If you can get in a few shares I would do it.
>>1195 Don't buy the peak. AMC is fundamentally fucked. People still aren't magically watching more movies. At some point it has to return to normal and the company will collapse. This is a literal money loss scheme, openly advertised as such on reddit. Reddit is whipping tards into a frenzy to buy Gamestop and AMC, trying to take out short sellers, but if they do, what then? Also, given that anyone can read reddit and this has been going for a while now, I would be amazed if the market's biggest players hadn't adjusted accordingly already.
>>1211 It's a known fact that some institutions and hedge funds jumped into the long positions as soon as GME took off, but all the news articles are strictly blaming it on retail investors from Reddit. The whole thing is a hustle and a honeytrap, and someone is going to be left holding the bag and it's not going to be me. If you're able to accept that risk and buy in now, all the luck to you, but the risk/reward is just too extreme for me
>>1187 >>1189 >>1190 >>1193 So, get involved with Dai, and possibly one other stablecoin (Think of sUSD).
>>1213 My feelings exactly. I think, go in early with money you don't care about or don't go in at all. Ok, perhaps hypothetically AMC may still go a fair bit higher, but is the chance of, at best, doubling or tripling your money worth the high risk? Probably not, for me. Easier to buy routine dips in crypto I think.
>>1216 >but is the chance of, at best, doubling or tripling your money worth the high risk It's worth a shot if you have pocket change to waste. I don't see any other reason besides that.
>>1218 Suppose you have $10,000 and you put $500 into it ("pocket change") - that's 5%. Likewise, if you had $100 and you put $5 into it, that's also 5%. The dollar amount and scale is different, but you'd still be risking and potentially throwing away 5% of your money.
>>1219 What I mean is that I'm trying to get anons to see it through percentage-based numbers and in terms of downside risk vs potential rewards. It could very well still go up a lot, but for all the upwards volatility, theres the risk of downward volatility too. There will always be other opportunities as well. But if you're comfortable with the risks of jumping in now, go for it
>>1218 Even AMC think it's a bad idea: >"Under the circumstances, we caution you against investing in our Class A common stock, unless you are prepared to incur the risk of losing all or a substantial portion of your investment," https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/amc-warns-investors-lose-all-their-money-if-buy-stock-2021-6-1030492006
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I purchased some more eth and it promptly went down.
To be nice, I'll tell everyone here what to invest in, chainlink, ethereum, monero, bitcoin, and doge.
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Hopped back on GME since I'm antisemitic. Picked up a few BB shares too. Hope those will pump and make the Jews suffer for destroying the republic. Crypto is in a dip but holders know it's going back up. Feeling lazy to swing.
I heard some niggers made 100s of thousand from buying 800 dollars of AMC options. How is that possible if the value of the stock itself hasn't even increased by that much?
>>1185 How much does it typically cost in fees to use an exchange to buy or sell crypto?
>>1262 You buy contracts instead. Higher risk (you might end up owing infinite money) but higher reward
>>1262 Read the thread, I posted a very long explanation about how options work Tldr; they would have bought them when the strike price was OTM then exercised a cash settlement when things got silly. Note that 75% of options expire worthless and you're also trying to time the market and time the market by a specific amount. Theres other risks involved, please do your own research
>>1265 >owing infinite money That only happens when you short stocks and your account will absolutely get liquidated if you cant maintain margin, realistically the worst that could happen is 10 or 100x your investment
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>>1267 > "This is financial advice, I am a registered broker, and this is for investment purposes only. Past performance always guarantees future returns, and all equity investments have zero risk."
>>1270 So you're saying I just need to put my money literally anywhere and 2x, 3x, even 10x gains are not only possible, but guaranteed? Sign me up, anon!
Idiots buying a coin that was a meme. I've been mining coins. Learning about blockchain . And other altcoins for years Still am no expert. The only way to make money on dogecoin is selling it to the next moron. And repeating. Holding it HA good luck with that! Yes there's a future where a dog faced computer token makes you rich you stupid fuckface God damn right you lost your house you worthless piece of trash. But thank you for pumping up the market for those of us that got in early LOL
>>1288 How do you think the stock market works? If a stock doesnt pay a dividend how can it possibly have any value at all?
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>>1288 >>1285 Memecoins aside, there are better alternatives to have good crypto portfolio and meatspace investment. I'm primarily focusing on minimizing my expenses first to build a good habit. No more ordering soda and pizza, more cooking chicken and rice. Though it is fun to schadenfreude.
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Are you fucking kidding me? I saw this coin in the wild at like 0.000005 prices but never made a move on it a month ago because Binance didn't support it. I'm not upset because I couldn't have traded it and wouldn't have left my (relatively) safe trading platform, but still, I saw an opportunity and didn't act. I could have been a CUMROCKET millionaire
>>1308 To be fair, with not investing in a coin named CUMROCKET, you already saved your sanity and dignity. Looks like the jews are purposely coming up with such ridiculous names so they can laugh while they see goyim fighting over CUMROCKET
>>1315 I'll still have to explain to my dad what CUMROCKET on the CUMMIES network is because he follows the news on stuff. This is a conversation no anon should have to have
>>1308 >I could have been a CUMROCKET millionaire This is what modern finance looks like
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>>1308 Imagine the clueless old people at mainstream news trying to talk about Elon Musk's cummies with a straight face, and then imagine >>1316 happening all over the world.
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>>1316 >>1324 >inb4 they all stumble onto Daddy's Cummies
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>>1327 >Daddy Elon's cummies
>>1329 >>1327 >>1324 >>1318 >>1316 Imagine reading about "Cumrocket investments" in the history books.
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>"investing"
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>>1331 >dad asks how I'm making money online
>>761 So apparently, as of 2 hours ago, the dumb company CIDM that I have 3800 shares of, is being added to the Russel 3000 index. A stock being added to an index supposedly causes a big uptick in prices, as index fund managers now need to acquire shares to rebalance their indices. And on a fundamental level, it's still solid. Hoping for $4-$6
>>1337 (nice numbers) I dont understand, what is Russel 3000? Having 3800 shares of anything going $4-5 is good profit
>>1339 Its an index that tracks multiple stocks to give a view of the economy. When people say "the markets were up today" they're talking about indexes. Dow Jones (both DJIA and DJTA) and the S&P500 and NASDAQ and Russell 3000 are all indexes. They all use different metrics but generally are weighted to the bigger companies. They're important because they can affect market sentiment (oh no the markets are down this entire week, its a bear market the bubble popped time to liquidate) which can drive prices elsewhere. Also some ETFs are balanced to emulate specific indexes, eg SPY follows the S&P500 and is highly recommended
>>1343 Oh, I just used to assume that dow jownes and all are some jewish company that operates a cabal of high rollers (whales) that then would affect the market. So the indexes are what monitor the individual stock prices and give us the "summary of the market"
>>1343 If you don't mind, how much of a profit you're gonna be making?
>>1345 Im in at 1.35, currently trading at 1.65. It has recently started breaking its resistance levels and has good fundamentals. I've waited about 6 months and expect it to take another 2-6 months to get that high, but prospects are good. All told, I'd be making 10,000-17,000$ proft if my expectations are met
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AMC up 21% from last week's closing price (as of 1:40PM EST).
>>1353 I'm still very hesitant to jump into AMC or GME, just because they've been front and center and are highly volatile. I like to use these tools to monitor stocks that are either low float (have fewer to trade and are highly volatile) or high short interest (eg highly shorted and could go up or down, but if shorts have to cover, they can explosively go up) Please note the "last updated" spot on the bottom of the page https://www.lowfloat.com/ https://www.highshortinterest.com/ If you're going for the short interest, anything above 30 or 40% shorted may be viable, but still DYOR and such before jumping into a company, in the event that it doesn't pop or the price goes down - you still want to have something with decent fundamentals so you can hold and recover if things don't work out as you had planned. Note for example this page was last updated May 27th - it usually updates twice a month and if you can catch it within a day or two, you might be okay The other way is looking at low float. This is a stock that doesn't have as many shares to go around (eg less than 10 million). The logic is that because of fewer shares available, price swings are volatile and dramatic - but you also want to make sure you get something with a decent amount of volume, because if there's no price action you might get fucked. I popped the 500 or so stocks into a spreadsheet and pruned away stuff that didn't meet my criteria. I had somewhere between a 60-80% success rate on picking out winners this way, but note that I'm still holding a bad pick from february (AEY) and waiting for it to hit $3.50 so I can exit my position. My criteria was: >Price between $1.00 and $25.00 >Volume between 200,000 and 8,000,000 >Look at the price for the last 30d. If there was a movement of 15% or more (either up or down), it was rejected This would favor smaller equities that were easier to have big movements (eg it's easier to move 200% on $5 than on $50), avoid stocks that were dead on the market, or being highly traded (could indicate news and it might have already popped), and a big prior price movement meant that it either had good or bad news recently so it would have already done its thing. I took my profits from previous trades and moved them into CIDM (and still holding AEY), so I don't have any free money to continue doing this, last trade I did was in March. I'd say if you could maintain about a 70% success rate on picks, and make intelligent decisions about when to double down or cut losses, you'd come out ahead overall. Remember, a 10% YOY being considered "very good", making that in a month or two is even better
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>>1359 Oh fuck, and the entire reason I made that post was to say I'd prefer buying BB, but also I have my eyes on Palantir (PLTR). Yahoo Finance has a sidebar with recommended stocks, and on AMC or BB, PLTR shows up. Over the last 30 days, it has a slow, steady upward growth of about 25%. What interests me is it's relation to the "paypal mafia": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia >The "PayPal Mafia" is a group of former PayPal employees and founders who have since founded and developed additional technology companies[1] such as Tesla, Inc., LinkedIn, Palantir Technologies, SpaceX, Affirm, Slide, Kiva, YouTube, Yelp, and Yammer.[2] Most of the members attended Stanford University or University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign at some point in their studies. Look at some of the names on this list, Elon Musk, people who founded YouTube, etc. Some 90% of them ended up having a part in multibillion dollar companies. Therefore, with one of these fellows involved with Palantir, and it's potential as a "meme stock", I think that's also an option
Buy gme
BTC touched 32900$ today. Sub 30k is the next major support for it to break through and once people see $29000, theyll panic. Now is a good time to get your cash and other liquid assets ready so you can accumulate a gradual position off the panic
>>1361 I might have if you posted more than that. Seriously you posted that 3 or 4 times between here and/v/ and it comes across as spam or shilling. >>1367 Its actually below $31900 now
>>1360 >Paypal Mafia Good chance all are well connected and help each other
BTC at $36k Meanwhile another coin Solana SOL is steadily gaining ground, having $38. I have no idea what this is.
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I love my dad but holy fuck is he an idiot sometimes. I'm managing like $3000 worth of stocks for him >Start trading last year, help set a portfolio up for him >Wants to put $500 into HTZ because they're in bankruptcy, but I caution against it because diversity is better >Set up a nice package of JETS, PPA, UNG, USO, a number of ETFs that has the same goal as what he wants - something that will rise as the economy recovers, with the rest of the money going back into it >Using a TFSA account, so when it got processed, it dropped to HTZGQ on the OTC boards and therefore ineligible to be in that sort of trading account so I had it liquidate it, ended up eating a $10 loss >If he had gone all in it would have been like $150 losses, meanwhile all the ETFs were up like 20-40% across the board, great Fast forward a few months >Starts getting really into it, reads shitty articles and wants to keep buying stuff after it pops 8, 10, 12% and an article mentions it and every single time it retraces and he loses money >Ended up being over $600 in the red with KODK across 60 shares (bought in 30x at $13, told him to buy another 30 when it hit $10 to push his average down) >Hits $6.20 and I get "Ohhh anon I don't like how well it's doing I want to sell half of them and buy BLDP instead" >Have a 30 minute conversation about why it's a bad idea but okay whatever it's your money >Literally a week later KODK pops off and recovers to $9, if he had listened to me and kept cash to buy more and not fucking sold it, he would have exited it with a mild profit instead of being deep red >BLPD bought at $25 and he'd have to have it hit $35 (fucking yeah right) to break even on his bad KODK trade AND THEN TODAY >"Oh anon I thought about what you said about having too many different things in my portfolio I want to sell half of them" <why.jpg >Plans to dump GE, H.TO, XLC and 20 KODK to buy more shares of X, which he shouldn't have done in the first place (1 share was $26, so again he'd need it to go to $36 to cover fees and expenses) >Explain to him that because of the $10 transaction fees, he's going to eat $60 in losses, on top of the $50 or so that he lost in KODK and he basically won't make his money back on the next thing he puts it into >"Ohh the stock gods are with me on this one, I can feel it!" >Proceeds to also tell me that "even though they made money, they didn't make enough money" <Fucking why He's got about $2000 in crypto, down about 30-40%, and because he keeps moving his stocks around and picking individual ones, his $3000 there is probably at a 10% gain or worse (strictly on ETFs, he was up 22-25%, and down about 8-10% on individual equities). It's his money and I'm just facilitating trades for him, but he keeps making genuinely bad decisions and I feel bad because my mom says he shouldn't be buying any more, but he does.
>>1442 Aren't you suppose to only mess with company stocks every six months at maximum, meanwhile actively trade in crypto only if the transaction fee is worth it?
>>1445 Depends. If you have a TFSA in Canada and use it for day trading, its frowned upon. There is no definition on what constitutes day trading but I heard 3 or 6 months, or even a year. Otherwise, those equities would be subject to a capital gains tax (something like 80% of your profit gets taxed at 27%). I dont trade crypto, we just hold it, though his entry was at about $47000 on BTC so I dont think he'll get into the green on it anytime soon. He doesnt like it because its too irrational (hell he got sad because GE only had 5m trade volume (which was its average) and didnt understand how a more niche company had like 20m average... at that level volume literally doesn't matter). Anyways crypto is harder to actively trade since they either dont have fees and take the margin spread, or have a fee that scales on value, and on top of that going from like BTC/ETH makes it hard to get an absolute dollar value since both currencies move up and down (eg you do a trade with 2 BTC but then what was the price of a BTC?). Makes accounting for it tricky
>>1449 > Anyways crypto is harder to actively trade since they either dont have fees and take the margin spread There's a fee attached to crypto, right? The "transaction tax" that goes straight to the miners for maintaining the blockchain.
>>1450 When I bought or sold on Binance, they charged me something like $0.10 worth of BNB coins. When i wanted to move my BTC to another wallet to cash out, it cost $25 USD
>>1442 You can't fix gamblers anon. Or at least gamblers who pretend they aren't gamblers. WallstreetBets has the decency to acknowledge their degeneracy
BTC over 40k. GME crabbing over 200. Alt summer is coming.
Apparently (((Blackrock))) and Vanguard and other big investment funds are aggressively buying up single family homes at 20, 30, 40% asking price to build huge positions in them. Looks like the goal is to prevent young middle class families from being able to buy property and get them on perpetual rentals instead


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